Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 36

Thread: XTS3000 Low Audio on console with optimized settings

  1. #1
    jlamanske No Longer Registered

    Default XTS3000 Low Audio on console with optimized settings

    I have my VHF XTS3000 set to AGC, +6 and 0 as recommended in the optimize your audio thread, but it seems to have awful low volume on the console and base radios. Any suggestions to which setting to start at to make it a bit louder? I tried reading the technical bulletin regarding this, but it mostly was like reading stereo instructions... haha. Thanks for the help! Seems about the same using RSM and radio mic.


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 21, 2011
    Posts
    4,416
    Thanks
    3,658
    Thanked 6,323 Times in 1,804 Posts
    Country: Canada

    Default

    TOTAL gain should be +6dB, and OUTPUT gain should be at 0db.

    If you're having problems with low audio, try increasing the OUTPUT gain to +3 or +6. This will increase the amplitude of the audio, without increasing background noise. (The preamp stage of the mic gain circuit isn't getting jacked-up, only the final product is.)

    What firmware is in the XTS3000s with the problematic audio? AGC isn't supported until R07.01.00 or newer.

    Also make sure your users are using their radios properly. Talking away from the speaker mic or into the back of the radio, is not correct.

    And one last tidbit: Speaker-mics tend to be much more sensitive than the built-in radio mic, so if user audio is low with speaker mics, then they're definitely doing something wrong.

  3. #3
    jlamanske No Longer Registered

    Default

    It's my personal radio, so it's the only one on our department that even has any type of DSP. It has firmware 7.71.06, and the concurrent newest version of DSPN.
    I currently have total set to +6 and output set to 0.
    I will try the output to +3 first.
    I may have been wrong about the audio level with the speaker mic. I hardly ever hear the other end while talking except in the station, but I do know when I use the radio microphone the audio level is low.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 11, 2011
    Location
    /dev/null
    Posts
    240
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked 157 Times in 55 Posts
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jlamanske View Post
    It's my personal radio, so it's the only one on our department that even has any type of DSP. It has firmware 7.71.06, and the concurrent newest version of DSPN.
    I currently have total set to +6 and output set to 0.
    I will try the output to +3 first.
    I may have been wrong about the audio level with the speaker mic. I hardly ever hear the other end while talking except in the station, but I do know when I use the radio microphone the audio level is low.
    I think you meant to say your radio is the only one with AGC... All ASTRO radios contain a Digital Signal Processor.

    Is the case one from Panter88 by any chance? I have seen a few of his with bad mic elements.

  5. #5
    jlamanske No Longer Registered

    Default

    I'm not 100% sure, but I am fairly confident I have the only Astro radio on VHF in the entire county.
    I'm not sure about the case. I bought the radio second hand and can't recall of it was recased or not. Audio does sounds good. Just low volume. Sounds consistent with most of the others I have owned.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 21, 2011
    Posts
    4,416
    Thanks
    3,658
    Thanked 6,323 Times in 1,804 Posts
    Country: Canada

    Default

    The easiest way to check to see whether or not your built-in mic is bad, is to try a speaker-mic. There should be about 3dB more sensitivity with the external mic in a normal/working configuration. If it's a HUGE difference, you might have a water-damaged mic element. It's not difficult to replace the element. But you must unsolder it from the flex cable. It's some work, but nothing a novice can't handle.

    Also, analog AGC does seem to work better (more balanced) in ASTRO25-series products, than the ASTRO line. Not sure why, but it's noticeable. AGC has always worked better in digital mode than analog.

  7. #7
    coopcity6 No Longer Registered

    Default

    why in gods earth are you people not using the tuner????
    go into tuner and make your adjustments there, turn that agc OFF, because that just makes things sound HORRIBLE, and go into tuner and tweak there. I can tweak your codeplug if you send me a tuner file and you will love it

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 21, 2011
    Posts
    4,416
    Thanks
    3,658
    Thanked 6,323 Times in 1,804 Posts
    Country: Canada

    Default

    coopcity6: What are you talking about? There's no adjustments to "tweak the audio" in tuner. Only set deviation and balance compensation adjustment. You don't set those to your liking, you set them as they should be set as per the service manual.

    AGC is beneficial. In fact, it should be mandatory on all systems. People who scream into their microphones are extremely annoying. Dispatchers and other users should not have to put up with that garbage. If users are unable to use their radios properly, that's not the fault of AGC -- that's a training issue.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 11, 2011
    Location
    /dev/null
    Posts
    240
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked 157 Times in 55 Posts
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coopcity6 View Post
    why in gods earth are you people not using the tuner????
    go into tuner and make your adjustments there, turn that agc OFF, because that just makes things sound HORRIBLE, and go into tuner and tweak there. I can tweak your codeplug if you send me a tuner file and you will love it
    What exactly are you doing in tuner to improve your AUDIO QUALITY? Do you have any idea what implications go along with dicking around with tuner? How are you making adjustments to a radio's tuning partition with a copy of a codeplug exactly? I am sure everyone would like to know because the codeplug doesn't contain tuning data.

    Tuner is used to align the radio for proper warp, deviation, power outputs and other items and requires a calibrated service monitor.

  10. #10
    jlamanske No Longer Registered

    Default

    I went ahead and changed my output to +3 and it seems much better on the radio Mic and longer on the speaker Mic as well.

  11. #11
    coopcity6 No Longer Registered

    Default

    i am only talking about deviation in the tuner section, from what i read and correct me if i am wrong, but i am reading that the audio output needs to be increased and you are only adjusting agc.
    agc does nothing but boost audio when in a quiet setting. If you want that audio to be up there in deviation, you got to do it right and go into tuner.
    if you have pr400 cps, i can send you a copy of my tuner file and show you exactly what i am talking about.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 21, 2011
    Posts
    4,416
    Thanks
    3,658
    Thanked 6,323 Times in 1,804 Posts
    Country: Canada

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coopcity6 View Post
    i am only talking about deviation in the tuner section, from what i read and correct me if i am wrong, but i am reading that the audio output needs to be increased and you are only adjusting agc.
    agc does nothing but boost audio when in a quiet setting. If you want that audio to be up there in deviation, you got to do it right and go into tuner.
    if you have pr400 cps, i can send you a copy of my tuner file and show you exactly what i am talking about.
    I appreciate what you're saying, friend, but that is not the correct way to set the audio amplitude in the ASTRO25 line of radios.

    Deviation and Audio Amplitude (mic gain) are two totally separate things. You want to align the radio as per the service manual, so deviation falls within specs.

    If the audio is low -- and I don't doubt your frustrations with AGC in certain configurations, what you want to do is use linear gain and adjust it accordingly. AGC doesn't just boost quiet audio; it also attenuates loud audio which is "clipping" a predefined limit. Properly configured AGC "normalizes" the audio amplitude. It's a very good thing.

    I wish I could send you some real-world samples from a local TRS (both with and without AGC) but my recording hardware isn't set up anymore. A great example is the MCS2000 mobile. Without AGC, loud-talkers can actually CLIP and completely cut-out as they're over-deviated or distorting the "connect tone" on a TRS voice channel. It's brutal -- especially on radios which aren't properly aligned/aligned a million years ago.

    With AGC, loud-talkers are normalized and consistent. This is especially noticeable when there's highway noise and a 200W siren going in the background. Works AWESOME.

    With newer DSP-based radios, there's quite a few settings to tweak. In the ASTRO25/APX radios, noise suppression filters (standard and advanced) are also available.

    The ASTRO and ASTRO25 series tuner applications are not similar to what you're seeing with the PR400 tuner. This is where our misunderstanding is stemming from.

    Regardless of platform, modifying the deviation outside of recommended specs is not the way to do it. But setting audio/mic gain and pre-amp settings are definitely OK to tweak, if that's what you're seeing.

    Thanks for the clarification. Cheers.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 11, 2011
    Location
    /dev/null
    Posts
    240
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked 157 Times in 55 Posts
    Country: United States

    Default

    Deviation is supposed to be set to 2.83 kHz per the service manual. You shouldn't play with this without a service monitor.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 21, 2011
    Posts
    4,416
    Thanks
    3,658
    Thanked 6,323 Times in 1,804 Posts
    Country: Canada

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pezking View Post
    Deviation is supposed to be set to 2.83 kHz per the service manual. You shouldn't play with this without a service monitor.
    He's talking about a PR400. There is no ASTRO alignment.

  15. #15
    coopcity6 No Longer Registered

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mars View Post
    He's talking about a PR400. There is no ASTRO alignment.
    Maybe I just stuck my 2 centss where it doesn't belong. After 2.83 khz, I realized we may not even be speaking about conventional.
    I am aware you DO NOT MODIFY audio settings in digital. I experience that with digital. Digital clips after a certain point with messed with.
    Sorry for the misunderstanding.
    What happens is nyc I was the main guy programming everyones radio for conventional and it became widely accepted to have above 5 khz deviation on analogue.
    I appreciate tge explanation. Maybe I will upload the fike anyway and you guys look at it and tell me what you think.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 01, 2012
    Posts
    176
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coopcity6 View Post
    What happens is nyc I was the main guy programming everyones radio for conventional and it became widely accepted to have above 5 khz deviation on analogue. I appreciate tge explanation. Maybe I will upload the fike anyway and you guys look at it and tell me what you think
    I hope not,you are possibly causing clipping of the audio, splattering over to the next channel, and you are violating FCC rules. Not a smart way to tune a radio. I hope you are going to retune them properly for narrow band,which is a max of 2.5 kc audio and CTCSS.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 22, 2012
    Posts
    675
    Thanks
    282
    Thanked 424 Times in 194 Posts
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coopcity6 View Post
    Maybe I just stuck my 2 centss where it doesn't belong. After 2.83 khz, I realized we may not even be speaking about conventional.
    I am aware you DO NOT MODIFY audio settings in digital. I experience that with digital. Digital clips after a certain point with messed with.
    Sorry for the misunderstanding.
    What happens is nyc I was the main guy programming everyones radio for conventional and it became widely accepted to have above 5 khz deviation on analogue.
    I appreciate tge explanation. Maybe I will upload the fike anyway and you guys look at it and tell me what you think.
    Yeah... The reason you'll sound "So good" and "WILL LOVE IT" is because you're running wide-open, and out of spec. "Widely accepted"? Did the FCC accept it? Do you realize that the filters on the receiving radios have a limited bandwidth anyway?

    You're a hack - plain and simple. I hate to be so matter-of-fact about it, but it's people like you who cause headaches for people like me on adjacent channels. What person in their right mind makes a comment like that in a public forum... Or does something like that to begin with.

  18. #18
    dynoman No Longer Registered

    Default

    FWIW, my XTS3000 audio as always been low -- particularly compared to my HT1000s which are very loud.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 28, 2012
    Posts
    1,261
    Thanks
    115
    Thanked 1,345 Times in 422 Posts
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mars View Post
    TOTAL gain should be +6dB, and OUTPUT gain should be at 0db.

    If you're having problems with low audio, try increasing the OUTPUT gain to +3 or +6. This will increase the amplitude of the audio, without increasing background noise. (The preamp stage of the mic gain circuit isn't getting jacked-up, only the final product is.)

    What firmware is in the XTS3000s with the problematic audio? AGC isn't supported until R07.01.00 or newer.

    Also make sure your users are using their radios properly. Talking away from the speaker mic or into the back of the radio, is not correct.

    And one last tidbit: Speaker-mics tend to be much more sensitive than the built-in radio mic, so if user audio is low with speaker mics, then they're definitely doing something wrong.
    A friend is complaining of low audio on his XTS3000 whether using the internal mic or RSM. The radio has the latest firmware, and operation is analog only.

    The boxes are checked for analog, securenet and digital audio control. AGC is on, TOTAL gain is +6 and OUTPUT is +3. I don't think that he talks close enough to the mic, but the audio still isn't as hot as other XTS3000s that I have seen. Any ideas?
    "Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases." Thomas Jefferson

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 21, 2011
    Posts
    4,416
    Thanks
    3,658
    Thanked 6,323 Times in 1,804 Posts
    Country: Canada

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by squeaky View Post
    A friend is complaining of low audio on his XTS3000 whether using the internal mic or RSM. The radio has the latest firmware, and operation is analog only.

    The boxes are checked for analog, securenet and digital audio control. AGC is on, TOTAL gain is +6 and OUTPUT is +3. I don't think that he talks close enough to the mic, but the audio still isn't as hot as other XTS3000s that I have seen. Any ideas?
    Re-train the user. Seriously.

    Try jacking the total and output gain settings to +12dB, while maintaining AGC as the gain type.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 28, 2012
    Posts
    1,261
    Thanks
    115
    Thanked 1,345 Times in 422 Posts
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mars View Post
    Re-train the user. Seriously.

    Try jacking the total and output gain settings to +12dB, while maintaining AGC as the gain type.
    I will give it a try. Now he is saying that there is no TX audio at all on some repeaters, but there is TX audio on others. Good grief.
    "Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases." Thomas Jefferson

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 12, 2011
    Location
    Avalon
    Posts
    1,207
    Thanks
    291
    Thanked 322 Times in 157 Posts
    Country: United States

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 28, 2012
    Posts
    1,261
    Thanks
    115
    Thanked 1,345 Times in 422 Posts
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnus View Post
    Check the alignment as a whole.
    I've suggested that, but he doesn't seem to want to pay for an alignment. The first thing that I would do with any used radio is to align the thing, especially a radio that was retired by a public agency.
    "Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases." Thomas Jefferson

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 12, 2012
    Location
    Directly above the center of the earth.
    Posts
    2,678
    Thanks
    793
    Thanked 1,344 Times in 664 Posts
    Country: Christmas Island

    Default

    I'll bet he doesn't change the oil in his car very often, too - it's probably too expensive.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 21, 2011
    Posts
    4,416
    Thanks
    3,658
    Thanked 6,323 Times in 1,804 Posts
    Country: Canada

    Default

    Tell the guy to quit wasting our time (through an extension of yourself) and either do it right, or buzz off. Seriously!

    There's only so many things that can be causing his low audio. Since the 3K is likely working just fine, and it's highly unlikely both the internal AND external mics are bad, I think he's like our local "fat bastard" who speaks 18" back from the radio in a soft voice when transmitting. The result is SOMEONE WHO IS ALWAYS QUIET. I've cranked the gain up for this moron and it's maxed-out. He's still quiet. No amount of user-training can fix the fat bastard's problem. A punch in the face or kick in the balls might be required for both idiots.

    Yes, I'm sick of idiots who are too stupid to understand how a radio works. Stupid, useless, retarded, mute morons.