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Thread: QC-II signaling on APX

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    QC-II signaling on APX

    I'm sure I'm programming this wrong, but trying to get a QC-II decode on a fire tone-out. My aim is to have the personality in the scan loop and only un-mute on proper tones (example, tone xxxx.x and yyyy.y) . It's not doing that....it's un-muting on anything on the frequency. I've never programmed QC-II decode so I'm sure I'm doing this wrong.
    Is there a write-up or primer on how to do this correctly? I've scoured the APX CPS help and still can't get this to work.
    Basically, I'm trying to eliminate the need for a Minitor pager and just use the APX radio for the same objective (except recording, that is).


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    Create a system for the QCII.
    Create a personality for the paging frequency. Populate the frequency options as normal.
    Under personality/non-Astro Call set selective call type Decode, unmute type AND, which will only allow the page to be heard. If the channel as PL, BOTH will be required to unmute.
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    Quote Originally Posted by com501 View Post
    Create a system for the QCII.
    Create a personality for the paging frequency. Populate the frequency options as normal.
    Under personality/non-Astro Call set selective call type Decode, unmute type AND, which will only allow the page to be heard. If the channel as PL, BOTH will be required to unmute.
    Still no luck....everything unmutes. Frustrating.

    The channel has PL (and I have that set in the freq options).
    The QC-II system creation is straight forward (typical A-B format)
    I've set the non-ASTRO system in the personality, and configured the SEL CALL type to Decode and mute type "AND".
    In the personality, I have the Unmute/Mute Type set to "Standard" (is that OK?)
    Rx De-emphasis.... should I have it checked or not?
    "Carrier Detect Required" is enabled Scan Wide. I need this for the other members of the scan list that this QC-II personality it in.

    What am I missing?
    Last edited by sjxts3000; 11-19-2017 at 06:31 PM.

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    Is it it's own 'system' AND personality? You should have a personality of one channel, the QCII channel. If this is in an FPP zone, each FPP channel needs its own personality, too.
    Retarded Mongoloid on PCP...

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    So I found out this won't work in scan mode. If I leave the radio on the QC-II channel, it'll work (only un-mutes on proper/desired tones). But if I am on a different personality and scanning several channels of which the QC-II personality is in there, that particular personality will un-mute on anything and not just the desired tones.

    I realize a Minitor can't do this either, but I figured I'd try to incorporate Minitor-like features in an APX portable while scanning. Fail-o-rama.

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    A Minitor 5/6 can do tone-alert on scan... I've got several dozen that do this every day. We're dispatched by two different PSAPs.

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    Yes, the Minitor 6 does this quite well, but note that /\/\ does state that alerting is not guaranteed in scan. In both cases, the APX and the Minitor, keep in mind that the first tone of QC is only one second. That means that with the APX, if you could get this to work in scan (which I doubt based upon what com501 says above and which I agree with fully) you would have to set the paging channel as the priority scan channel, and the priority look back time would have to be no longer than one-half second to insure decode of the first tone if the radio should happen to be stopped on another channel when a page is sent. And, if your scan list in normal scan is too long you might not land on the proper channel in time to catch the first tone. Both radios can be set to do this but I have not (yet) done the two tone decode on one of my APX's in a trunking application, something I have intended to do but can't seem to find any round to it's.... in actuality I am puzzled as to why you have to scan for a page when, you are listening to the radio while scanning, aren't you? In the case of tvsjr it is quite appropriate to scan, I also have customers that are dispatched by two different PSAPs and use the scan feature on Minitor 6's quite effectively to enable paging from both counties.

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    As much trouble as I have had to make this work for a couple of agencies, I am under the opinion that Motorola really doesn't give a goats butt about paging anymore.
    Retarded Mongoloid on PCP...

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    Quote Originally Posted by com501 View Post
    As much trouble as I have had to make this work for a couple of agencies, I am under the opinion that Motorola really doesn't give a goats butt about paging anymore.
    P25 I-call.

    I've heard of agencies that dispatch almost exclusively via I-call... It's quite common to have a single base radio set up using an I-call for station alerting.

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    I had no problem getting QCII to work in APX subscribers once GA09000 was flashed in. Conventional analog, P25, Phase II, crypto, all work just fine. They'll go down to .75 x .75 second timing before decode starts to get unreliable. On analog, just like with Astro25 radios, tone deviation is critical and too hot or too quiet tone audio won't decode. And in the P25 trunking world, the tones have to come from a networked MCC console or an APX consolette... XTL and Astro Spectra consolettes produce something akin to a distorted pan flute.

    Before GA09000 was available we tried alerting via P25 call alert (which I assume is what weenie meant by "i-call") and it was completely unreliable. Group pages would take forever to go out because half the radios in them were turned off and the console has to "fail" the alert before it moves on to the next one, and even when the radio was turned on it wouldn't receive the alert half the time because it was on an IV&D data channel. QCII does not have that problem because it's handled as voice audio which preempts IV&D on the selected channel (and a firmware fix around R14 or R15 supposedly fixed voice preemption on scan talkgroups, but in my experience it still doesn't work.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by motorola_otaku View Post
    (which I assume is what weenie meant by "i-call")
    I-call, Individual call, Private Call... All the same thing, just different company marketing...

    Didn't think about any idiot turning off the station receiver, all those ACK timeouts would indeed be horrible.

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    Not station receivers, this was for mobile and portable units in the field. Had we gone with a call alert-based solution for station alerting IV&D would have been disabled for those IDs, along with the power button and volume control.

    There are much better ways to skin that particular cat than using a mobile radio and its dinky one or two logic outputs for tone/call alert decoding.
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    fake edit: On that note... GA09000 gives you the ability to activate VIP outputs in APX mobiles with OCII.
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    On a related note, did they ever enable QCII encode on APX over conventional analog channels?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lubindent View Post
    On a related note, did they ever enable QCII encode on APX over conventional analog channels?
    Yes. You're hard-locked into 1x3 tone timing, but it does work. You can have up to 100 tone sequences in a group, and all of them are encode-capable (only the first 10 are decode-capable.)

    Can confirm that encode over P25 also works.
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    Quote Originally Posted by motorola_otaku View Post
    Yes. You're hard-locked into 1x3 tone timing, but it does work. You can have up to 100 tone sequences in a group, and all of them are encode-capable (only the first 10 are decode-capable.)

    Can confirm that encode over P25 also works.
    I've got a 7k on R16.00 firmware and I'm still limited to decode only in the personality. Is this a recent addition with the R16.whatever firmware or am I missing something else in CPS that'll let me do it? It's something I've missed from Astro25 as it made testing pagers very easy.

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    Put a QCII menu item in.

    Select a channel with QCII setup under Signalling/Signalling Type, hit the QCII menu item, select the tone and hit ptt.
    Cyrus

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    You need GA09000 in the flashcode for extended QCII capability. Without it all you get is limited analog conventional decode-only, similar in function to XTS/Astro25 but crippled down.

    Is there any interest in a detailed write-up on APX QCII setup? I've got it pretty well whipped, so I could throw something together.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrus View Post
    Put a QCII menu item in.

    Select a channel with QCII setup under Signalling/Signalling Type, hit the QCII menu item, select the tone and hit ptt.
    Quote Originally Posted by motorola_otaku View Post
    You need GA09000 in the flashcode for extended QCII capability. Without it all you get is limited analog conventional decode-only,
    similar in function to XTS/Astro25 but crippled down.

    Is there any interest in a detailed write-up on APX QCII setup? I've got it pretty well whipped, so I could throw something together.
    If you're willing to cast the line, I'm willing to bite. Having a step-by-step for anything never hurt anyone.

    I've had decode working great for a while now, but tried to get encode set up a some time ago and CPS wouldn't let me select encode as a valid option. If my memory serves me right, the option was available to be selected, but if you picked it, it came up red as an invalid option. Not having GA09000: Tone Signalling in my flash would explain it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by motorola_otaku View Post
    You need GA09000 in the flashcode for extended QCII capability. Without it all you get is limited analog conventional decode-only, similar in function to XTS/Astro25 but crippled down.

    Is there any interest in a detailed write-up on APX QCII setup? I've got it pretty well whipped, so I could throw something together.
    A detailed write up would be awesome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wiredwrx View Post
    A detailed write up would be awesome.
    I actually found the CPS help to eventually be quite "helpful". The problem is that you have to sit on the channel for it to work. You can't be on a different channel and scanning others (of which include the QC-II channel in question). Won't work that way.

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