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Thread: Off the shelf "dispatch over IP" needed

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    Default Off the shelf "dispatch over IP" needed

    ​I am not ROIP centric so I'm coming here for a little direction. I have a dispatcher in town A that needs to talk on a radio in town B. For the purpose of this conversation, town A is out of range of the system in town B so a radio on a desk isn't a solution. A console (read this as a laptop or desktop software connection) is not an option as the customer wants to "stupid proof" the operation. They used to do tone remote in the day and are familiar with the mic and speaker in a box concept. Are any of you supporting something like this that is direct IP out to the radio termination like a NXU2 or IP223 type box? Channel steer is a plus if it can be done. Radio is a Kenwood NX800H that is operating mostly on a trunked NEXEDGE system.

    Read through old threads but seems most of the discussions were about roll your own designs. I'm looking for buy it, program it, install it, walk away. I'll let the customer decide if he wants to spend the $$$ it's gonna take.

    TIA!

    Dave


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    At the bare minimum you will need:
    -A tone remote port on Town A's console OR a tone remote deskset.
    -A tone remote termination for the NX800 at Town B. A Zetron iRIM will let you channel-steer with function tones up to 16 channels.
    -Some means of 4-wire analog transport over IP. Two IP-223s back to back can do this, and so can Cisco routers with NM-HD-2V cards populated with VIC2-E/M cards. The IP-223s are fairly straightforward to set up if they're on the same LAN/subnet (i.e. a VPN tunnel between Town A and Town B.)
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    No such thing as an off the shelf dispatch console. Some assembly required. Telex CSoft and IP224 will support a Kenwood NX800 with mode select and other front panel functions through the serial port of the IP224 and a cable purchased from Telex. See their application guide AN-DISPATCH-004 for instructions how to set up the NX800 series.

    Basic Nexus console PC with V7 CSoft loaded, 2 line key, and IP224 - $6500 list minus desk mics, foot pedals, speakers, and monitor. And that does not include any of the networking devices they will need to get across the interwebs.

    If they can live with not changing the channel, that push-to-talk, let-go-to-listen is okay, I suggest the IP2002 two line IP deskset coupled with an IP224. They can get into that for about $4700, again minus any networking equipment they will need. These are hardy remote desksets with a super loud speaker on the front panel.

    If you don't have a Telex dealer in your area, PM me and I'll put a quote together for you. The 2018 price list hasn't come out yet, but I'm expecting it soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by motorola_otaku View Post
    At the bare minimum you will need:
    -A tone remote port on Town A's console OR a tone remote deskset.
    -A tone remote termination for the NX800 at Town B. A Zetron iRIM will let you channel-steer with function tones up to 16 channels.
    -Some means of 4-wire analog transport over IP. Two IP-223s back to back can do this, and so can Cisco routers with NM-HD-2V cards populated with VIC2-E/M cards. The IP-223s are fairly straightforward to set up if they're on the same LAN/subnet (i.e. a VPN tunnel between Town A and Town B.)
    In fact, two IP223's or 224's in console mode will carry tone control without error across the public internet. Unlike other products, it does not try to send the actual control tones. It hears the tones from the console, interprets them, and sends a command to the far end to generate those tones into the base station / term panel. So, you don't have to worry about tones farbling with frame loss.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill_G View Post
    No such thing as an off the shelf dispatch console. Some assembly required. Telex CSoft and IP224 will support a Kenwood NX800 with mode select and other front panel functions through the serial port of the IP224 and a cable purchased from Telex. See their application guide AN-DISPATCH-004 for instructions how to set up the NX800 series.

    Basic Nexus console PC with V7 CSoft loaded, 2 line key, and IP224 - $6500 list minus desk mics, foot pedals, speakers, and monitor. And that does not include any of the networking devices they will need to get across the interwebs.

    If they can live with not changing the channel, that push-to-talk, let-go-to-listen is okay, I suggest the IP2002 two line IP deskset coupled with an IP224. They can get into that for about $4700, again minus any networking equipment they will need. These are hardy remote desksets with a super loud speaker on the front panel.

    If you don't have a Telex dealer in your area, PM me and I'll put a quote together for you. The 2018 price list hasn't come out yet, but I'm expecting it soon.
    I second the IP-2002 / IP-224 solution done this for many customers. Have most of what you need in my back room here in S. FL. But would need to get you a 2002.

    ....?

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    If it's a NexEdge trunked system, have you looked at the KAS-10 software? It'll allow IP direct into the trunked system with voice and messaging.

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    Thanks to all of you for the info. Looks as though IP2002 / IP224 may be the solution the customer is looking for. His bank account may not like it though. Answering a couple of questions here, yes it's Nexedge type C but for several reasons a console connection directly to a site may cause other operational issues we are trying to eliminate with this. VPN connectivity is no issue as they have other systems running this way to the remote location. We are going to put the radio there on a yagi into the system. They want nothing to do with a console (PC or smartphone PTT based) for the "stupidproof" reason listed above so remote radio it is.

    It seems that we are a Telex dealer from before my time so I will get appropriate folks on it to price that out.

    Along this line, if I understand the explanation, I could interface a basic tone remote like a CPI TR10 to a IP223 or JPS NXU2A and come out the other side to a matching box and interface that to the radio for basic PTT and RX audio correct? I've done lots of tone and DC from back in the day, just had not had the opportunity to do this type of interface on IP.

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    If you use a pair of NXU's (and most VOIP/ROIP appliances), you'll be attempting to send tones over IP which works fine 90% of the time. The other 10% of the time, during frame errors and other ISP service issues, your customer will be cursing your name as they have to retry transmitting a couple ten times because LLGT farbles causing xmit to drop. That's if the function tone got through to key it up.

    OTOH, a pair of IP224's, in CONSOLE MODE, will interpret the function and guard tones from the tone remote, turn them into commands telling the other end to generate the tones. You aren't sending the tones. You're sending the function. They suffer through frame loss much better. The voice may tweak sometimes, but the darn radio will key up and stay keyed up until they let go like it's supposed to.

    It's just a reliable as using E&M signaling over the NXU link. Give them a local control instead of a tone control. Remote PTT goes to the E lead on the near end, M lead goes to the radio PTT on the far end, there you go - done. About as cheap as you can get it.
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    @mss-dave.

    Tried to pm you some data. But I got an over quota space error.

    ==

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    Quote Originally Posted by phonebuff View Post
    @mss-dave.

    Tried to pm you some data. But I got an over quota space error.

    ==
    I guess I need to resupport to get my quota back up but that just changed here in the last day or so. mssdave AT yahoo.com works if you like..

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    By far the cheapest solution is a single NXU at the radio end and PC-NXU at the dispatch end. I know you said they want stupid-proof, but if they can turn the volume control on a PC speaker, and press the space bar to transmit over the built-in mics, it's pretty bullet proof.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mss-dave View Post
    I guess I need to resupport to get my quota back up but that just changed here in the last day or so. mssdave AT yahoo.com works if you like..

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
    Done --------

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    Quote Originally Posted by mss-dave View Post
    I guess I need to resupport to get my quota back up but that just changed here in the last day or so. mssdave AT yahoo.com works if you like..

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
    Can you confirm when your donation was made? In 2016, all donations were refunded (made <90 days before site shutdown). Also, anyone who donated at any time, and had their account set up for "$upporter" status, would've kept that provision, regardless of whether or not their donation was refunded.

    FYI to others, I refunded more than $3000 USD in donations that had come in. We're not thieves around here

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    Sure.... 11-11-16 was the donation date. You graciously refunded that on 12-21-16 when the site shut down. I noticed the $upporter moniker changed 2 or 3 days ago just by chance then the PM issue was noted. I currently am exceeding my PM space by 433%..lol

    I have NO problem donating again as I look to CS for high level discussion and help like above (and of course Stickies in other threads about the "Enemy Combatants") and I'm happy the site is back available for us. Just let us know where to send $$$ now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mss-dave View Post
    Along this line, if I understand the explanation, I could interface a basic tone remote like a CPI TR10 to a IP223 or JPS NXU2A and come out the other side to a matching box and interface that to the radio for basic PTT and RX audio correct? I've done lots of tone and DC from back in the day, just had not had the opportunity to do this type of interface on IP.
    To add on to what Bill_G has posted... the accessory connection on the NX-800 is the same as the x180 mobile series, and uses the same serial commands for channel steering and remote control. I know the IP-223 can be interfaced directly to the radio for channel steering/control when used with a C-Soft console (huge POS, don't buy) but I don't believe that's the case when they're configured as analog audio gateways. The Zetron iRIM can interface directly to the NX-800, and will convert function tones to channel steer commands.

    I installed basically the same setup you're trying to build with a NX800 and iRIM, but interfaced to a Motorola system via CCGW.
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    radio for channel steering/control when used with a C-Soft console (huge POS, don't buy) but I don't believe that's the case when they're configured as analog audio gateways.
    The IP 2002 will work the same way as the csoft console.

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    Quote Originally Posted by motorola_otaku View Post
    ... C-Soft console (huge POS, don't buy)
    I like CSoft. It used to be cheap, and still is by comparison, but not like it was. Pretty straight forward product. Never had a problem with it.
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