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Thread: XL200 Durability Questions

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    Default XL200 Durability Questions

    If anyone here has fielded these, I'd like to get your true opinion. We currently have a couple of thousand XG100P radios and since the XG100P was EOL'd, we are looking at other models, specifically the XL200. We would love input on problems that you may have experienced with the XL200. One of our biggest complaints about the 100P is the battery "pogo" pins would break. On the few XL200s that we've seen, they at least went with a leaf-type battery contact, so that is better, but they still didn't seem like they'd hold up to the abuse that our users can dish out. We just don't want a rehash of the 100P where they were in for repair constantly.

    All input is welcome. Thank you.


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    We are mostly 75p/pe fielded but have a handful of 200p radios. I would out durability on par between the 75 and 200 based on simple observations.

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    We don't have any 75s. We have XG100M, XG100P and XTS2500 radios. Our 2500s blow away the XG100P for durability. Our maintenance logbook is made up of RMA's for XG100 portables (90%) and XTS2500s for local maintenance. We have 100Ps that will lose their key or require a factory reset because they go into a boot-loop. Now we are seeing a charger issue that when you place a radio in the multi-bank display charger, the display on the charger will read "Data Error" or some other error. Sometimes the problem follows the radio, sometimes it follows the slots. Sometimes, you have to remove the battery from the radio to charge it, other times, the battery won't charge unless it's attached to a radio. It's maddening.

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    Default XL200 Durability Questions

    Audio on the 200s is garbage. AGC doesnít function properly, and there are amplitude issues, specifically on digital.

    For P25, stick with Motorola.

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    It always starts out with "These are great! Lightweight, small form, etc"... then after a month it evolves to "They're just OK" or "These suck"

    Our experience has been poor due to:
    - Continuous firmware issues (pages of them)
    - Durability (ABCD concentric switch is easily rotated mistakenly in a hip case, volume knob "clicks" either break or wear away to a free-spinning state)
    - Clarity tests vs APX were obvious enough for our fire personnel to hear the difference and choose APX.

    Our opinion, they solicited ideas from the users (good), built them in a cubical (good), but never sought pre-production comment or field tested them thoroughly enough before market (bad.) They seemed in a hurry to launch it.

    As always, YMMV

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    Harris PSPC has become a joke.

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    Thank you guys for the input!

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    What are some of the firmware related issues? We are attending a conference to determine which radio best fits our needs and the XG100P had left a very bad taste in our mouths. If the same types of issues are being experienced in the XL200, we'd like to know.

    Or system is Harris infrastructure and we utilize Phase 2 P25, OTAR, AES full time and OTAP. Has anyone had any problems OTAPing Motorola radios on a Harris system? We can OTAR the XTS2500 fine, but we don't have any OTAP capable Motorola radios to test.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rescue161 View Post
    Has anyone had any problems OTAPing Motorola radios on a Harris system?
    Based on how APX CPS interacts with an ASTRO25 system (even without Radio Management) I'm not sure it's even possible. You would need to be able to access the subscriber IP address, and have CPS installed on a computer with access to the Harris system core either on the same subnet as the subscribers or accessible via NAT/firewall. All of this is contingent on a Motorola subscriber playing nice with Harris' version of IV&D, which I have not personally seen work.
    "The Girl Scouts found several hungry REACT members at the finish line..."

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    That's what we figured. I guess we'll find out soon enough at the conference who will play nice with each other.

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    OTAP won't work between manufacturers. (Tested)

    As for the firmware, just look at the software release notes to all the "TR Fixes" in the back. Hell, 6A was over 2 pages of bug fixes. Most would jump to the conclusion "They are making great progress" however, for every 1 item they fix, they almost always break 2 others.

    We've approached it differently with customers. Since each version of firmware has a something different defective, we simply ask "which problem can you live with?" ... No joke.

    Our state police started demoing them about 2 month ago. Started out with the "Nice and light" and after some time, due to the issues, they are reconsidering they're initial positive reports.

    There's a memo floating around somewhere from the LARICS project that gives a fairly unbiased explanation of pros and cons between the platforms. (They also went APX)

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    Do you have a date or location for this memo? I'm on a .gov network and search engines don't give good results.

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    The ruggedness is not near what an APX is. All that I have evaluated have loose knobs right out of the box. They also don’t like water. The “fire mic” also suffers from aquaphobia. Battery life is another weakness. The 2900mha APX is more than double life than the 3100mah XL200 (bad fuel milage). Others that mentioned ergonomis, firmware, audio are all spot on. Hell, the radio has a hard time just standing up, because of a poorly designed battery.
    Good luck with your decision, and don’t let price sway you, it will be more expensive in the long run when you’re replacing a bad choice. How many of your officers are carrying Hi-point pistols??? Exactly!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rescue161 View Post
    I'm on a .gov network and search engines don't give good results.
    Try searching for porn sites.. I find that often makes life interesting


    as far as the harris OTAP is concerned I haven ot personally tried it but I woudld think that using a Moto RM system and OTAP you should be able to send any codeplug updates. I am pretty sure that the Harris version of OTAP would not be compatible with Moto hardware. I do know that trying to update a Harris radio on a Moto system did not work. We tried to just add a TG to it but we never got it to actually update.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otter9309 View Post
    Battery life is another weakness. The 2900mha APX is more than double life than the 3100mah XL200 (bad fuel milage).
    Funny how Harris makes a big tadue of the battery time lasting a full shift on their XL200p video.Sounds like it has just as dismal battery run time as the XG100p!

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    I have still had good luck with durability and battery life on our XL radios. Don't get me started on stability of code though. I have a fleet of about 1800 radios and have had to load new code due to operational bugs at least 4 times in the last 6 months as each fix breaks something else (mostly impacting my XG radios that make the vast bulk of my fleet).

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    Quote Originally Posted by DisasterGuy View Post
    ...Don't get me started on stability of code though.
    The countless pages of bug fixes leads the question to what quality control or testing even exists. I'm surprised that the radio turned on with anything XLP4 or XLP5 with how screwed up they both were. XLP6A23 is still TBD. We were a week or so away from upgrading ~2000 radios to XLP5A until they pulled it back with a warning "DO NOT USE." We deployed XLP4 since they could fix the code fast enough. Though looking at what 5C broke, I'm glad we stuck with XLP4.

    Hobbyists LOVE new code every month to upgrade and play with their own radios. Actual radio system professionals HATE releases that often. I'm always amused at the positive spin with "They update and release new firmware every month!".... That's not a positive...

    /rant

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    Agree. I can confirm from our testing that the major TRs that impacted us in R5 were resolved. We have deployed R6023 in just over 1,000 units since it was released. The most significant issue we have found is that scan is broken (more than it already was). If your system doesn't depend on scanning XLP R6 is likely fine from what we have seen so far. If you do, I'm happy to give you additional info offline.

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    One thing for sure, they are consistant. All these problems were present in the previous 5 generations. The releasing of FW, quickly followed by a ďdo not useĒ warning continues to be par too. Iíve been waiting to see who will be the guinea pig for the XL200 in mass quantity. Iíll light a candle for you at church.

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    We have almost 11,000 radios on our system, so firmware upgrades are a nightmare. Plus, the "Program Office" dictates what version of firmware we use, so even though there may be a bug fix, we are locked into certain versions until the powers that be say otherwise. It is like pulling teeth when talking with TAC as they don't understand why we don't just change to the latest version.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rescue161 View Post
    We have almost 11,000 radios on our system, so firmware upgrades are a nightmare. Plus, the "Program Office" dictates what version of firmware we use, so even though there may be a bug fix, we are locked into certain versions until the powers that be say otherwise. It is like pulling teeth when talking with TAC as they don't understand why we don't just change to the latest version.
    I get the control of what version of code issue. We have learned to test code extensively both on the bench as well as with a few select users before rolling new code to the fleet.

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