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Thread: How Huawei tried to sell itself to Motorola for $7.5bn

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    Default How Huawei tried to sell itself to Motorola for $7.5bn

    This has surfaced in the last 48 hours

    https://twitter.com/FT/status/1100779384540196866 and http://www.newslocker.com/en-uk/prof...for-75bn/view/

    this event took place back in 2003 but I keep finding my self asking why to bring it up some 16 years later.....

    Is it some event to get people looking to this issue in the left while some other issue is occurring on the right?

    Optics are important :-)
    I do not believe in political correctness BS leftest tripe
    Suck it up, HTFU and make the place great again! Work never killed anyone who did it safely


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    I am unable to open the second link, dead already, go figure.

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    just did a quick google and found this one which is not behind a paywall
    https://myzikk.com/2019/02/27/how-hu...ola-for-7-5bn/

    the initial story I was a link to was on financial times.
    I do not believe in political correctness BS leftest tripe
    Suck it up, HTFU and make the place great again! Work never killed anyone who did it safely

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    There are more than a few items in that article that are completely wrong, which doesn't help its credibility whatsoever.

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    Factual inaccuracies aside, I think the main reason this has resurfaced now is due to all the current politicising of the 5G infrastructure globally and particularly in the US where my understanding is that Mr Trump will be doing everything he possibly can to prevent Huawei from being able to participate in integration of anything core or peripheral to their main network infrastructure.
    What interests me is the flip side of this, what if the deal had gone through in 2003? Would Motorola still be a nobody in the mobile market? Would the acquisition have allowed the design team at Huawei to continue and design the products that they have since gone on to develop?

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    It's coming up most likely due to the Huawei CFO (Ren's daughter, interesting in its own right) being arrested in Vancouver at the behest of the US; extradition is underway. It's meant to embarrass the US, but I suspect the reaction is "meh." I find it fascinating that a picture was taken; for much M&A activity this would never be allowed.

    • Huawei was and is, for the large part, a money-making part of the PLA.

    • Huawei is also responsible for rampant IP theft. Cisco, Motorola and many others.

    • There are absolutely valid reasons to think/suspect Huawei as a security threat.

    Politics absolutely aside, this is a state security issue - and it always has been. This deal was never going to go through, LOI or not.

    The mobile market wasn't what was in play then, it was the infrastructure side.

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    You know I have been wondering about all this.

    Your statement bellow about intellectual property theft, have you ever seen any evidence or just read the claims made by various companies?

    Like don't get me wrong I don't really know what is what. But I would caution about jumping to conclusions, after all with 5G rollout there is billions at stake.

    I have read it's alleged the Huawei has a back door to spy on 5G, is that technically possible without detection by folks like the NSA or the people here?

    Quote Originally Posted by noaffiliatefan View Post
    It's coming up most likely due to the Huawei CFO (Ren's daughter, interesting in its own right) being arrested in Vancouver at the behest of the US; extradition is underway. It's meant to embarrass the US, but I suspect the reaction is "meh." I find it fascinating that a picture was taken; for much M&A activity this would never be allowed.

    • Huawei was and is, for the large part, a money-making part of the PLA.

    • Huawei is also responsible for rampant IP theft. Cisco, Motorola and many others.

    • There are absolutely valid reasons to think/suspect Huawei as a security threat.

    Politics absolutely aside, this is a state security issue - and it always has been. This deal was never going to go through, LOI or not.

    The mobile market wasn't what was in play then, it was the infrastructure side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPECIAL_EYE View Post
    ... is that technically possible without detection by folks like the NSA or the people here?
    Yes, yes and yes. Think Supermicro with their grain of rice chips.

    You have to understand, as much as it may be $$ and politics, carriers don't want Huawei either. They don't want the risk. This isn't a 3 year investment, or one temporary system for the olympics and then it gets thrown out. These are LONG TERM investments. Backdoors directly affect companies pockets. Even small and medium businesses are ditching Hikvision.

    Risk = $$.

    So sure, the gas station mini mart and liquor stores can keep using their Hikvision proxy piping specials, but don't expect the Oil companies to want Hytera at their refineries, or the Electric company to want no-name SIP intercoms or access control at their doors, or the major wireless carriers to want Huawei.

    Politics aside, the risk just outweighs any cost savings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPECIAL_EYE View Post
    You know I have been wondering about all this.

    Your statement bellow about intellectual property theft, have you ever seen any evidence
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by SPECIAL_EYE View Post
    But I would caution about jumping to conclusions, after all with 5G rollout there is billions at stake.
    See my statement above.

    Quote Originally Posted by SPECIAL_EYE View Post
    I have read it's alleged the Huawei has a back door to spy on 5G, is that technically possible without detection by folks like the NSA or the people here?
    See my statement above.




    To be as clear as possible, China competes this way. They see it as a valid way of moving themselves forward, and in many ways, from their perspective, it's hard to argue the results they've had.

    I've known (and liked) many Chinese people over the years, and most don't want to associate with Huawei at all. In general, they've moved away from China to... move away from China.

    But at the same time, a handful of Chinese either get or feel pressure and they will wind up cooperating with the state or a state-run company.

    You've been around these forums for a while, search back and you'll see at least one or two threads on this happening.

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    I’ve read about the alleged “back doors“ in the Huawei infrastructure. Obviously, this would be included in any firmware or operating system code.

    I would very much like to see any examples of malicious Huawei code. The world’s intelligence agencies must aware of it. Show me the goods. Make me a believer.

    I’ll refrain from offering my political opinion on the matter, but I am a fact-based believer. I ignore 100% of what the media writes, as most people in media are there for reason: because they’re too stupid to do any other job function, except writing about things they know nothing about, on a very tight deadline. Source: I spent a decade working in media and have a 3-year journalism diploma.

    Facts. Science. Believe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noaffiliatefan View Post
    Politics absolutely aside, this is a state security issue - and it always has been. This deal was never going to go through, LOI or not.
    Say what? This was allegedly 16 years, much different political and technological climate then than now. When considering that if you have bought a Motorola phone in the last 5 years it has been running Android and built by a Chinese company (Lenovo) makes it all the more suspect to say that "security concerns" had anything to do with anything at the dawn of the millennium

    Easiest explanation is Ed Zander being utterly incompetent and doing all he could to run Motorola into the ground IMHO

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    Quote Originally Posted by PSEhub View Post
    Yes, yes and yes. Think Supermicro with their grain of rice chips.
    To this day these claims by Bloomberg are 100% unsubstantiated, uncorroborated and sourced to anonymous informants. The companies allegedly affected have vehemently denied the claims and have purported to conduct substantial and significant internal investigations into the claim and found them to be 100% meritless. Yet here they are again, being parroted as fact

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    Please remember not all back doors are implemented in software.

    You can hand over the source code and checksum upside down and sideways, but unless every PCB is being inspected, anything is possible.

    https://www.theverge.com/platform/am...zon-supermicro

    I think one of the best things is to secure Taiwan. Taiwan makes some really really good stuff, keeping Taiwan clean should be an international priority.

    https://www.theverge.com/platform/am...zon-supermicro

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    I think the issue isn't the practice or methods or existence of the surveillance, it is the scope and process of determining who/what is a "targeted organization"

    Before the so-called "revelations", what did people think the Intelligence Community did? Not collect intelligence? Revealing indeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PSEhub View Post
    Please remember not all back doors are implemented in software.

    You can hand over the source code and checksum upside down and sideways, but unless every PCB is being inspected, anything is possible.

    https://www.theverge.com/platform/am...zon-supermicro

    I think one of the best things is to secure Taiwan. Taiwan makes some really really good stuff, keeping Taiwan clean should be an international priority.

    https://www.theverge.com/platform/am...zon-supermicro
    These articles you have linked spew the same salacious claims as the Bloomberg article and do not contain any substantiated or corroborated evidence whatsoever. I am not saying there is no backdoor. I am saying there is zero evidence of the backdoor and all this trumpeting of the claims as fact is irresponsible.

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    Wow, this thread has taken off since my last posting.
    I have to agree that there has to be empirical evidence of foul play before I am willing to jump on the bandwagon of finger pointing and boycotting. Far aside from the politicised argument that has emerged from t't for tat arrests and dispelled ambassadors.
    I have heard all of the scare stories about back doors and unlimited and unfettered access to our data that have been going around, but given that one of the leading phone networks in the UK has said that to bar Huawei from the UK 5G roll out, would mean stripping tech out of 4G and setting the existing infrastructure back years, I wonder how much "additional" access would be gained?
    Most UK networks are working on limiting impact, by keeping Huawei tech to masts and cell sites, so that reverse access to the main network is limited or prevented.
    Only time will tell what the true impact is.

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    We know that it is in Amazon and Apple's best interest to deny it

    We know Amazon aquired Elemental Technologies in 2015 who was using SuperMicro, and shortly after designs were under increased scrutiny, in 2016 Apple suddenly stopped buying SuperMicro products.

    Do we have schematics, drawings, layouts and pictures/comparisons showing the implants publicly available? Or packet captures? No.

    But its pretty clear where Amazon, Apple, and Bloomberg interests stand. Bloomberg wants to make headlines, Apple doesn't want to admit negligence or affect trust or corporate image of user privacy, and amazon same thing with the additional piece of acquiring Elemental which was using Supermicro

    So there is definitely plenty of conflicted interests and no unbiased parties here. I totally understand and support your skepticism.

    I guess the chinese are just better at not letting pictures of their "load stations" leak out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by escomm View Post
    Say what? This was allegedly 16 years, much different political and technological climate then than now. When considering that if you have bought a Motorola phone in the last 5 years it has been running Android and built by a Chinese company (Lenovo) makes it all the more suspect to say that "security concerns" had anything to do with anything at the dawn of the millennium

    Easiest explanation is Ed Zander being utterly incompetent and doing all he could to run Motorola into the ground IMHO
    My post was a bit abbreviated as I had a longer one written out and lost it due to timeout....

    When I said "politics aside" I should have said "current politics aside" - Huawei's/China's behavior has been pretty consistent for a long time now, both on the capabilities as well as the intentions side. Given that, I would suspect any sane administration, regardless of where they sit on the spectrum, would have come to the same conclusion and taken roughly the same actions.

    But sure, especially given the fun situation around the massage parlor shenanigans, politics are always going to be in play when world-leading nations clash. Never meant to imply anything else.

    As far as seeing actual evidence out in public, no one should be holding their breath over that.

    Regarding Ed Zander/Mike Z and other execs, including Brownie - who says they aren't utterly incompetent at the same time following the wishes of 3-letter agencies?

    Nothing says it can't be both.

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