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    Default Motorola vs. Hytera



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    https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...Lawsuit-Hytera

    November 20, 2018

    CHICAGO--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Motorola Solutions, Inc. (NYSE: MSI) today announced the successful outcome of its latest patent infringement lawsuits in Germany against Hytera Communications Corporation Limited (SHE: 002583) of Shenzhen, China and Hytera Mobilfunk GmbH of Bad Mnder, Germany (collectively, Hytera). This is the second time this year that a German court has ruled in favor of Motorola Solutions against Hytera Mobilfunk GmbH; importantly it also applies to Hytera’s Chinese parent company, Hytera Communications Corporation Limited (SHE: 002583) (Hytera Communications).

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    The beginning of the end for Hytera? Well not the beginning, but closer to the end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyboy View Post
    The beginning of the end for Hytera? Well not the beginning, but closer to the end.
    I doubt it.

    They are still allowed to sell the product in the US
    https://www.hytera.us/news/itc-commi...-determination

    reading legal press releases from motorola legal patient troll dept it like watching cnn (crap news network) - you know you are reading crap and half-truths and the feeling you need to take a bath in NASA grage disinfectant it alway a possibility.

    The German ruling has come out but like most things legal there will be an appeal, stay of action and more legal moves.

    Another side is Hytera owns Sepura who are biger seller in Europe of tetra kit, don't be surprised if Sepure gets back a DMR line up.

    Hytera still has legal action pending in the US over Motorola and cartel-like actions it carries out in the local market (discussed on the forum in the past), if it succeeds it will offer customers real choice as it will help all manufactures in the US market compete on a more even playing ground.

    It's only half-time in this game and there is still more to come.

    Anyway the lastest motorola hardware products released (LEX for example) to market are someone else's creations/engineering with motorola sticker on it, looks like they really are becoming a services company, creater of glue to stick software purchases together and patient trolls.
    I do not believe in political correctness BS leftest tripe
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    Quote Originally Posted by techman View Post
    I doubt it.

    They are still allowed to sell the product in the US
    https://www.hytera.us/news/itc-commi...-determination

    reading legal press releases from motorola legal patient troll dept it like watching cnn (crap news network) - you know you are reading crap and half-truths and the feeling you need to take a bath in NASA grage disinfectant it alway a possibility.

    The German ruling has come out but like most things legal there will be an appeal, stay of action and more legal moves.

    Another side is Hytera owns Sepura who are biger seller in Europe of tetra kit, don't be surprised if Sepure gets back a DMR line up.

    Hytera still has legal action pending in the US over Motorola and cartel-like actions it carries out in the local market (discussed on the forum in the past), if it succeeds it will offer customers real choice as it will help all manufactures in the US market compete on a more even playing ground.

    It's only half-time in this game and there is still more to come.

    Anyway the lastest motorola hardware products released (LEX for example) to market are someone else's creations/engineering with motorola sticker on it, looks like they really are becoming a services company, creater of glue to stick software purchases together and patient trolls.
    Thanks for spelling it out. There has been so many articles back and forth that I have completely lost track of where their lawsuits are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyboy View Post
    Thanks for spelling it out. There has been so many articles back and forth that I have completely lost track of where their lawsuits are.
    That ok :-)
    Down here in Australia, some of the customers I deal with ask these questions from time to time to options and longer-term direction, legal challenges overseas is a concern to long-term support but it also undermines customers conference to stay with either vendor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by techman View Post
    I doubt it.

    They are still allowed to sell the product in the US
    https://www.hytera.us/news/itc-commi...-determination

    reading legal press releases from motorola legal patient troll dept it like watching cnn (crap news network) - you know you are reading crap and half-truths and the feeling you need to take a bath in NASA grage disinfectant it alway a possibility.

    The German ruling has come out but like most things legal there will be an appeal, stay of action and more legal moves.

    Another side is Hytera owns Sepura who are biger seller in Europe of tetra kit, don't be surprised if Sepure gets back a DMR line up.

    Hytera still has legal action pending in the US over Motorola and cartel-like actions it carries out in the local market (discussed on the forum in the past), if it succeeds it will offer customers real choice as it will help all manufactures in the US market compete on a more even playing ground.

    It's only half-time in this game and there is still more to come.

    Anyway the lastest motorola hardware products released (LEX for example) to market are someone else's creations/engineering with motorola sticker on it, looks like they really are becoming a services company, creater of glue to stick software purchases together and patient trolls.
    Sepura has now got a DMR line, they are testing handsets with a few big UK events.

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    Hytera have apparently made it on to the DoD's no buy list- https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/1...donotbuy_list/

    From the article
    The letter explains that vendor bans follow from the implementation of Section 806 of the FY2011 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) and Sections 881 and 889 of the FY2019 NDAA.

    Section 889 (Prohibition on Certain Telecommunications and Video Surveillance Services or Equipment) of the FY2019 NDAA lists five Chinese companies the DoD should avoid –
    Huawei Technologies Company, ZTE Corporation, Hytera Communications Corporation, Hangzhou Technology Company, and Dahua Technology Company

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    Yeh saw that - and odds are Motorola is not on a number of Asian govt approved purchase lists.
    Hong Kong port authority dropped Motorola for Airbus I was informed last week, HK police may do as well in favor of non-US suppliers.

    Just govt bs to keep pen pushers in jobs on both sides.

    What I also found funny, Hikvision and Dahua Technology are also listed... These are two of the largest CCTV/IP camera producers in the world for both OEM and own brand name. Looks like Axis among others are now on the band list for modems produced in these factories.

    I wonder if norsat and Sinclar have also been banned from purchase.......
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    Hi,

    Sepura had a DMR line since 2014 or so, it was Kirisun rebadged products.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bup View Post
    Hi,

    Sepura had a DMR line since 2014 or so, it was Kirisun rebadged products.
    Sepura was using a rebadged Kirisun but stopped selling the radios in 2016 due to financial loss
    https://www.techradar.com/au/news/se...-loss-for-2016

    Now Hytera has purchased Sepura they may have re-entered the DMR market.
    I do not believe in political correctness BS leftest tripe
    Suck it up, HTFU and make the place great again! Work never killed anyone who did it safely

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    This just in from MSI (may be old news, I apologize if it is):

    December 4, 2018
    Dear d119:
    Last year Motorola Solutions filed several legal actions against Hytera Communications Limited, including a complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission (ITC) asserting that Hytera is unlawfully importing and selling two-way radio equipment, systems and related software and components that infringe four of Motorola Solutions' patents. I am writing to inform you that on November 16, the ITC issued a Notice of Final Determination confirming that certain Hytera products are infringing four Motorola Solutions patents.
    As part of its Final Determination, the ITC issued an exclusion order that will prevent the importation of products infringing three of those patents into the United States, as well as a cease-and-desist order that will prevent the sale and marketing of those infringing products previously imported into the United States.
    Importantly, Motorola Solutions' infringed patents cover a variety of innovative technologies in use in today's two-way radios and repeaters. The patents covered by the ITC's exclusion order relate to:
    Motorola Solutions' Fast Scan technology, which enables a subscriber radio to scan through a list of radio frequency channels quickly to find important transmissions;
    Motorola Solutions' Rapid Re-key technology, which ensures that messages are repeated even after a repeater de-keys, thereby significantly reducing message delay and eliminating dropped transmissions; and
    Motorola Solutions' TDMA Direct Mode Pseudo Trunking technology, increases the number of calls that can take place and significantly reduces the amount of time it takes to set up a new call.
    Following a mandatory 60-day presidential review period, expected to conclude around January 15, 2019, the ITC's exclusion and cease-and-desist orders will take effect. At such time, we expect at least the following Hytera products to be excluded from the U.S. market:
    Radios (Subscribers): MD652, MD782, BD302, BD362, BD502, PD412, PD502, PD562, PD602, PD662, PD682, PD702, PD752, PD782, PD792, PD982, X1e, X1p
    Repeaters: RD622, RD982
    The ITC also rejected Hytera's request for a repair and replacement exception. This means that neither Hytera nor any third-party repair provider will be able to import replacement parts or perform service for infringing products imported and sold before January 15, 2019 (the date the exclusion order goes into effect).
    The ITC is an independent federal agency with broad investigative authority to address unfair trade practices, including situations in which a foreign company is unfairly competing by importing infringing products into the United States.
    I want to assure you that Motorola Solutions embraces legitimate competition. In fact, we believe that robust, fair competition drives innovation and benefits our customers and our industry as a whole. However, the infringement demonstrated by Hytera creates an uneven playing field and threatens the industry's ability to innovate, which ultimately hurts customers. Importantly, there are numerous alternative products on the market, as several other companies supply similar products in the U.S. and around the world.
    We have created a webpage which outlines the ITC's ruling, lists the impacted Hytera products and provides answers to frequently asked questions. We encourage you to use this as a resource; additionally; we have included a customer letter which you are welcome to use.
    Meanwhile, it remains business as usual at Motorola Solutions. We continue to offer our full suite of best-in-class products, services and solutions and remain committed to developing unique, innovative products for our customers around the world.
    Thank you for your support as a valued Motorola Solutions partner.
    Sincerely,



    Jack Molloy
    Executive Vice President
    Products & Sales
    Motorola Solutions

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    Quote Originally Posted by d119 View Post
    This just in from MSI (may be old news, I apologize if it is):
    Somewhat old news. That announcement was issued on November 19, 2018:

    https://www.motorolasolutions.com/en...customers.html

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    I figured such. Interesting they took almost a month to send it out via e-mail.

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    Radios (Subscribers): MD652, MD782, BD302, BD362, BD502, PD412, PD502, PD562, PD602, PD662, PD682, PD702, PD752, PD782, PD792, PD982, X1e, X1p
    Repeaters: RD622, RD982
    The ITC also rejected Hytera's request for a repair and replacement exception. This means that neither Hytera nor any third-party repair provider will be able to import replacement parts or perform service for infringing products imported and sold before January 15, 2019 (the date the exclusion order goes into effect).
    There is the part that stood out to me. As a third party - I'm somehow restricted via this ruling to "service" certain Hytera products? Does that include programming? How does that get enforced?

    I had read that in one of the German court rulings, Hytera was going to have financial obligations regarding the disposal of existing radios covered under their ruling. I had read that as a "buy back" program to help get the old units out of the market. Am I wrong?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radioguy7268 View Post
    There is the part that stood out to me. As a third party - I'm somehow restricted via this ruling to "service" certain Hytera products? Does that include programming? How does that get enforced?

    I had read that in one of the German court rulings, Hytera was going to have financial obligations regarding the disposal of existing radios covered under their ruling. I had read that as a "buy back" program to help get the old units out of the market. Am I wrong?
    Firmware upgrade to v9 on 6xx to 9xx series addresses the issues on radios and v2 firmware for pd3-5 for lower-end models, otherwise, cross-grade to i-series radios is an option. net result sales as usial from what local hytera and (motorola wholesales) are sayng down where.

    lets see what happens next - it takes to to play in court and both have extensive patent suites, it would be sad to see hytera/secure pull a motorola on motorola.
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    Just came across this on a bookface group....

    https://newsroom.motorolasolutions.c...4fr2G3N_1LFACM

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    Then there's this from Hytera. GARY
    https://www.hytera.us/news/letter-to...o-not-infringe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mars View Post
    Customers deserve more options.
    The "last call at the bar" for big dollar LMR is approaching. The way I see it, two roaches are fighting over the M&Ms on the kitchen floor.
    FirstNET, PTT over LTE, the days for large, bloated, overpriced radios and infrastructure are coming to an end.

    They're both acting like desperate hookers in tattered fur coats standing on the street corner doing it old school when everyone else have gone to Backpage, Tinder, etc.
    Your streaming makes me AES-256. Keep it up and you'll soon have nothing to listen to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTS2000DES View Post
    The "last call at the bar" for big dollar LMR is approaching. The way I see it, two roaches are fighting over the M&Ms on the kitchen floor.
    FirstNET, PTT over LTE, the days for large, bloated, overpriced radios and infrastructure are coming to an end.

    They're both acting like desperate hookers in tattered fur coats standing on the street corner doing it old school when everyone else have gone to Backpage, Tinder, etc.
    I read a "Firstnet Survey" the other day and laughed because they boasted about the fact that there were 196 cellular towers covering Fairfax County VA vs 7 LMR towers. Oh I wonder why... Maybe because cellular operate at extremely high frequencies utilizing milliwatts of power? You are going to sit there and tell me its more cost effective to maintain that massive of an infrastructure? And you want to talk about bloated over priced devices? Just wait until they sucker these agencies in with their "Cheap" solution and the price tag sky rockets within a few years. It's not like an Iphone without a contract isn't a grand already. Then you have the service plans on top of it. I'm sorry, but I'll never be convinced that going to a mass conglomerate cellular company is the best thing for public safety. You want to build on a P25 type protocol to put more users on less spectrum then fine, but even then you are just over taxing a system for absolutely no reason... Interoperability isn't a technology its a mindset.
    I'm here to learn!

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    Quote Originally Posted by slapshot0017 View Post
    I read a "Firstnet Survey" the other day and laughed because they boasted about the fact that there were 196 cellular towers covering Fairfax County VA vs 7 LMR towers. Oh I wonder why... Maybe because cellular operate at extremely high frequencies utilizing milliwatts of power? You are going to sit there and tell me its more cost effective to maintain that massive of an infrastructure?
    Cellular doesn't need 110 watt base radios. Signal levels down to -130 to -150dBM are the world they live in and antennas being stuffed into metal cases of thin smartphones yet they can achieve in building coverage without BDAs or DAS in many situations where your 6 watt $8000 LMR portable is dead in the water and can't hit a site 10 miles away inside a structure with a donkey **** of an antenna and P25 sucks **** at -115dbm. Tell me what is feasible. Average cost to add a P25 trunking site $500,000 to $1,000,000 depending on number of channels in the system.

    T-Mobile gave me a femto cell for free that covers my entire office floor and supports 3 LTE bands as well as AWS. The cost of such a device is around $400. What's a GTR run again?

    Quote Originally Posted by slapshot0017 View Post
    And you want to talk about bloated over priced devices? Just wait until they sucker these agencies in with their "Cheap" solution and the price tag sky rockets within a few years. It's not like an Iphone without a contract isn't a grand already. Then you have the service plans on top of it.
    These devices are heavily subsidized by carriers. County school board went FirstNET for $1 a phone (got Sonim XP8s) and cradles installed.These devices can also perform location based services, broadband data for on board cameras, and PTT. This over a $700 MotoTRBO voice only radio. Sure it's a whopping $35 a month per bus. But no pricey infrastructure to maintain. That's the future whether you, I or anyone accept it or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by slapshot0017 View Post
    I'm sorry, but I'll never be convinced that going to a mass conglomerate cellular company is the best thing for public safety. You want to build on a P25 type protocol to put more users on less spectrum then fine, but even then you are just over taxing a system for absolutely no reason... Interoperability isn't a technology its a mindset.
    $40 billion dollars and a 25 year contract says otherwise. Let's revisit this topic in 5-10 years. My money says the days of $8000 radios and $35,000 repeaters are coming to an end.
    Your streaming makes me AES-256. Keep it up and you'll soon have nothing to listen to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTS2000DES View Post
    $40 billion dollars and a 25 year contract says otherwise. Let's revisit this topic in 5-10 years. My money says the days of $8000 radios and $35,000 repeaters are coming to an end.
    I think for most folks in Urban/Suburban areas, you nailed it.

    What's going to be interesting is : Rural areas with terrible terrain for propagation (Western Pennsylvania being one of them). You get down into the hollows and valleys, nobody's cellular devices work. The only folks passing voice traffic? LMR users. The only folks passing data? State Agencies on PA-STARNet (old OpenSky network transitioning to an ASTRO25 P2 system), or SAT users.

    I'm also guessing when you get out into the BLM-areas of the Western US, those high-power mobiles probably still come in handy, somebody correct me if that's out of line.

    Now, all that said - If FirstNET gets cellular infrastructure into those same places the LMR traffic will pass, then all the better.

    In my world, local PD brass are getting Sonim XP 5800's... Non-Touch Android with a D-Pad is an interesting animal. But the PTT-over-LTE voice quality sounds great (they needed to get their devices whitelisted on our NAC to get on the WLAN because... well... no cell service in our buildings)

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    Quote Originally Posted by p47r4ck View Post
    I think for most folks in Urban/Suburban areas, you nailed it.

    What's going to be interesting is : Rural areas with terrible terrain for propagation (Western Pennsylvania being one of them). You get down into the hollows and valleys, nobody's cellular devices work. The only folks passing voice traffic? LMR users. The only folks passing data? State Agencies on PA-STARNet (old OpenSky network transitioning to an ASTRO25 P2 system), or SAT users.

    I'm also guessing when you get out into the BLM-areas of the Western US, those high-power mobiles probably still come in handy, somebody correct me if that's out of line.

    Now, all that said - If FirstNET gets cellular infrastructure into those same places the LMR traffic will pass, then all the better.

    In my world, local PD brass are getting Sonim XP 5800's... Non-Touch Android with a D-Pad is an interesting animal. But the PTT-over-LTE voice quality sounds great (they needed to get their devices whitelisted on our NAC to get on the WLAN because... well... no cell service in our buildings)
    I have been in a couple of locations here in Australia where LTE has used 700mhz band to deal with interesting terrain and if fuctions quite well. Also one of the advantages if microcells is the coverage it gives and it can run across satelite connection or ptp microwave. downside for motorola is the cost - microcells are under 15k aud installed locally plus connection back to core (setup with 5mhz spectrium from memory).

    A number of mine sites in my state locally have been commissioning private lte for mine comms and driverless trucks, first saving identified to get the business case up... no maintinance or replacment of (motorola) p25 radio network. Upshot for contractors who have needed a radio in the past for on site comms (cost around 2k aud) is the cost of the app on phone or tablet comes is at almost free. It is all heuwei kit installed, BTS's are all top of tower water proof units and cheap as chips to install. Biggest cost if core and software license.

    Last time I looked at motorola options for p25, there was no gtr8000 top of tower option yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTS2000DES View Post
    My money says the days of $8000 radios and $35,000 repeaters are coming to an end.
    Not when the days of $2000 cellphones are arriving.

    The high-priced stuff will shift downward a bit, but most of the people placing the orders are using tax money, and figure that if they ever have to answer questions in court, they want to say that they didn't cut corners by buying cheap, unreliable comm gear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoloCDR View Post
    Not when the days of $2000 cellphones are arriving.

    The high-priced stuff will shift downward a bit, but most of the people placing the orders are using tax money, and figure that if they ever have to answer questions in court, they want to say that they didn't cut corners by buying cheap, unreliable comm gear.
    Yep that works well, there was a saying if you purchase IBM, Microsoft, Motorola, GE you will not get fired.... These days are long gone

    duckduckgo quick search
    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=motorola+s...=v151-1&ia=web

    Motorola you may get to go to court, and it seems when you look into opensource court doco they are settled out of court last minute.

    At least if you purchase the $2000 phones, you do not need to purchase the $200k voice recording system, all you need to do is request the 5 eyes clowns provide a copy of the conversation!
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