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Thread: The public use of ENCRYPTION

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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo4Thirty View Post
    You are referring to TrueCrypt. Remember when one day they just packed up and took their ball and went home? Speculation was that uncle sam wanted them to install a backdoor "or else" and they decided to go away instead. All of the security analysts still agree it was a secure program with no known exploits, yet they flipped out and said it was insecure and to use bitlocker, a microsoft product with suspected backdoors. I wonder if we will ever know the true story... someone go dig up Paul Harvey and get him to look into it!
    Wow, they must have had skeletons in the closet and the NSA had photos. Or their bank got a phone call.


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    This is a good read in the media in the last few days in case some of you have not seen it

    Forbs;
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoff.../#2e179d0628e0

    Guardian;

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...app-encryption

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    This is why we need offline devices, such as P25 radios, private WLANS (not connected to internet), DMR/AES and even NXDN AES. **** every last one of you government dickmasters who think you are entitled to access private communications, without outlining your belief a crime is in progress. You are predatory, perverted, overbearing pieces of crap.

    Hoard as much P25/DMR AES gear as possible. It's us vs. them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPECIAL_EYE View Post
    This is a good read in the media in the last few days in case some of you have not seen it

    Forbs;
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoff.../#2e179d0628e0

    Guardian;

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...app-encryption
    This is pretty scary stuff; Facebook has loudly denied adding or considering adding anything like this to their apps, but I'm not sure I believe them or anything they say at this point. IF not today, all it would take is an international "agreement" at one of these Eyes summits, and they might mandate such a thing at any time. That has been the Big Brother Wet Dream for some time now.

    Signal is one of the few end-to-end encrypted apps left that hasn't been compromised, I would recommend that for now. Also, if you're paranoid, download the APK files for it and install it out-of-band (via a File Manager), so the Google Play Store app manager won't see it and try to slip in a turd during an "update". The Mac version is probably more difficult to install out-of-band without rooting the phone first, but I'm not a Mac man, so I'm not sure about that.

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    they are not the only one, uk and us have been known to leverage various degrees if pain to have side doors installed. uk/us govt are setting up the odd crisis to get the rules changed.

    a number of US company's have been pushed to do this as well - I will crack up laughing when the secret back door on motorola radios and software are discovered and published. Mars will be in stitches when this day rolls around!
    I do not believe in political correctness BS leftest tripe
    Suck it up, HTFU and make the place great again! Work never killed anyone who did it safely

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    Quote Originally Posted by techman View Post
    they are not the only one, uk and us have been known to leverage various degrees if pain to have side doors installed. uk/us govt are setting up the odd crisis to get the rules changed.

    a number of US company's have been pushed to do this as well - I will crack up laughing when the secret back door on motorola radios and software are discovered and published. Mars will be in stitches when this day rolls around!
    The first product it will be discovered in is the MOTOTRBO 2.10 series crap. TRBO is already owned as the codeplugs contain the encryption keys. They're not stored in secure/tamper-proof memory space, like they are with ASTRO/ASTRO25/APX UCM/MACE hardware. Yeah, the algorithm itself might be secure, but the security implementation is flawed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPECIAL_EYE View Post
    This is a good read in the media in the last few days in case some of you have not seen it

    Forbs;
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoff.../#2e179d0628e0

    Guardian;

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...app-encryption
    Frightening stuff. Real 1984 type stuff and language. Man in the middle being replaced with end to end WITH THREE END POINTS , you me and the STASI. Worse that it is probably true the masses don't understand or appreciate end to end encryption. They will accept whatever is status quo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mars View Post
    The first product it will be discovered in is the MOTOTRBO 2.10 series crap. TRBO is already owned as the codeplugs contain the encryption keys. They're not stored in secure/tamper-proof memory space, like they are with ASTRO/ASTRO25/APX UCM/MACE hardware. Yeah, the algorithm itself might be secure, but the security implementation is flawed.
    As difficult as it is to create secure algorithms and systems, it is probably trivial for an agent placed in a position of engineering a product to find a way to spill the encryption key out with the broadcast.

    Take the TEK, encrypt it with a malignant secret key, then introduce it into the traffic at known places. The odd bit errors would be unnoticed over many seconds of transmission, or parse it out over a longer period. The traffic will be recorded to file anyway, so a delay of a few minutes to recover the key initially is not a big deal.

    The bit errors in the transmission could even be corrected by the receiving units by manipulation of the malignant secret key.



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    Quote Originally Posted by RFI-EMI-GUY View Post
    Worse that it is probably true the masses don't understand or appreciate end to end encryption.
    As long as they have Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram most of the "kids" in my generation could give a sh!t about online privacy. The younger generations have grown up never knowing a world without ubiquitous social media and targeted advertising and are even less likely to care. Those of us who do care are tagged as "recluses" and viewed in kind of the same light you'd view someone like Ted Kaczynski.

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    Quote Originally Posted by motorola_otaku View Post
    Those of us who do care are tagged as "recluses" and viewed in kind of the same light you'd view someone like Ted Kaczynski.
    Or labeled as "Cartel encryption salesman/tech support/supplier".

    ONLY BAD PEOPLE USE ENCRYPTION.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mars View Post
    Or labeled as "Cartel encryption salesman/tech support/supplier".

    ONLY BAD PEOPLE USE ENCRYPTION.
    We need to seed the internet with bilions of computer generatef bogus "secret" files consisting of nonsense and keep the NSA wonks busy into the next century,

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFI-EMI-GUY View Post
    We need to seed the internet with bilions of computer generatef bogus "secret" files consisting of nonsense and keep the NSA wonks busy into the next century,
    I guess you don't shop at malls, have reason to visit to government buildings or major tourist spots, or fly commercial?

    Do you want to re-think your suggestion of deliberately impeding security agencies? Yes, there have been some classic intel failures, over reaching of legal processes, and just plain balls-ups but that does not represent the vast majority of security agency and law enforcement activity.
    It is a fine thing to be honest, but it is also very important to be right

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    A French company by the name of IDRIX, which specialises in crypto and security products has taken on the TrueCrypt source code base and has updated and re-released it as VeraCrypt.

    https://www.veracrypt.fr/en/Home.html


    It is released with full source code for independent verification. They can’t call it TrueCrypt, as the name belongs to the developers of the original code...

    For what it is worth, I use it myself...

    Regards,
    Phil

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    Quote Originally Posted by Astro Spectra View Post
    I guess you don't shop at malls, have reason to visit to government buildings or major tourist spots, or fly commercial?

    Do you want to re-think your suggestion of deliberately impeding security agencies? Yes, there have been some classic intel failures, over reaching of legal processes, and just plain balls-ups but that does not represent the vast majority of security agency and law enforcement activity.
    Except ‘security agencies’ don’t care about guilt or innocence. They care about convictions. Period.

    If encryption is used by ‘bad people’ what does it say about organizations like the RCMP, FBI, US Marshals and every other LEA that uses encryption to secure their data and communications.

    Frankly, while average citizens will likely support encryption back doors, they really have zero clue how prevalent encryption is in their day to day lives.

    By giving ‘the government’ unfettered access to every aspect of our lives, 1986 is truly here.

    **** that. **** them. Use robust encryption, and encryption that is not compromised. Stop using products that fall under US jurisdiction.


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    This got political fast.. The US government restricting individuals' ability to encrypt should be viewed as an infringement of the 1st Amendment. When not in the context of transmitting on HAM bands, it is completely legal at this time. Please support the Electronic Frontier Foundation if you value encryption.

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    Encryption on ham bands is legal in Canada, go figure. In the US, you can't have a 'secret' key, you must publish it. OK, so use some obscure form of encryption that requires a specialized radio 'for experimentation'. Not my fault if your Trbo portable can't do AES256. Here's the key. We'll be talking about propagation and the weather.
    Apparently NOT a radio professional.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viper1-6 View Post
    Except ‘security agencies’ don’t care about guilt or innocence. They care about convictions. Period.

    If encryption is used by ‘bad people’ what does it say about organizations like the RCMP, FBI, US Marshals and every other LEA that uses encryption to secure their data and communications.
    Our government should have nothing exclusive over our citizens, that is, if we still believe that our government in the US is "of the people, and for the people" and not the corporate state that want to live unchecked in a consequence free, law free environment and don't have to answer to "the people".

    Right now, as we speak, those in our government are working to restrict our ability to be on the level playing field with those who rule over us when it comes to being able to own armaments and our ability to keep them out of our personal information.

    Seems rather ironic. The same government that tells us "guns are bad" and "encryption is bad" uses both extensively to "keep us safe".

    Removing all checks and balances introduces tyranny. Something those who own the house around here have wanted for decades. We're all too busy fighting with each other to take note of what's really going down.

    "Something's wrong, in this house today."
    Your streaming makes me AES-256. Keep it up and you'll soon have nothing to listen to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTS2000DES View Post
    Our government should have nothing exclusive over our citizens, that is, if we still believe that our government in the US is "of the people, and for the people" and not the corporate state that want to live unchecked in a consequence free, law free environment and don't have to answer to "the people".

    Right now, as we speak, those in our government are working to restrict our ability to be on the level playing field with those who rule over us when it comes to being able to own armaments and our ability to keep them out of our personal information.

    Seems rather ironic. The same government that tells us "guns are bad" and "encryption is bad" uses both extensively to "keep us safe".

    Removing all checks and balances introduces tyranny. Something those who own the house around here have wanted for decades. We're all too busy fighting with each other to take note of what's really going down.

    "Something's wrong, in this house today."
    Spot on.


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    Quote Originally Posted by com501 View Post
    Encryption on ham bands is legal in Canada, go figure. In the US, you can't have a 'secret' key, you must publish it. OK, so use some obscure form of encryption that requires a specialized radio 'for experimentation'. Not my fault if your Trbo portable can't do AES256. Here's the key. We'll be talking about propagation and the weather.
    It's funny, it's kind of like silencers for guns (well, suppressors...) being legal and possibly even required for hunting in some countries in Europe, as it's considered polite or being a good neighbor to quiet those noisy gunshots down. Similar idea with the ham bands in Canada - if they want to be polite and keep the bands quiet, they encourage use of encryption so no one has to hear it!

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    I've had the pleasure of meeting and talking with Phil Zimmerman, the father of "PGP" Pretty Good Privacy. It was the first widespread use of the public key cryptography RSA techniques. He talked with me about his reception experiences up at NSA.

    Veracrypt is a stable, well engineered solution for protecting local computer data files. While the sudden disappearance of the Truecrypt developers was both curious and suspicious, the essence of open technology kept the development useful, valuable and ultimately secure. It's in a better place today.

    Americans have lived in relative safety and security from external threat within our borders for more than a century. I was frankly amazed at the speed with which an entire generation voluntarily gave up their privacy in order to engage with an anonymous community in social media.

    It's ignorance that allowed young people to do this. Yet while voluntarily sharing details of their lives with strangers, they have become more sensitive to actual government surveillance when they perceive it exists.

    In England, the culture has grown to completely accept a remarkable level of video surveillance.

    I saw this automated video analytics package at work last week in a conference. It's also open technology, and it was impressive.

    https://voxel51.com/

    It can not only identify individuals in street and building surveillance video, but can identify what they are doing, and track them between scenes.

    Encryption technology for the protection of privacy is becoming more important as other advances like this become available. Like any technologies, they can be turned to the use of both good and evil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo4Thirty View Post
    You are referring to TrueCrypt. Remember when one day they just packed up and took their ball and went home? Speculation was that uncle sam wanted them to install a backdoor "or else" and they decided to go away instead.
    Paul Le Roux was a cartel boss and later DEA informant, who found himself in a whole ton of legal trouble related to his primary business dealings around when TrueCrypt development stopped.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwater View Post
    I've read that if you were to use every super computer on the planet it would take 234 years to just check .01% of the possible keys.
    I wonder if that still holds true, there are some pretty powerful computers around, mass produced, plus all that FPGA stuff I don't even begin to understand

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    How many of you have seen this:

    https://www.facebook.com/records/login/

    I wonder how many law and non law enforcement alike members know about that one

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    I just started reading "Code Warriors" by Stephen Budiansky, which chronicles NSA work in the perspective of the Edward Snowdon disclosures. It also puts an interesting perspective on the security of commercial encryption technology (DES, etc...).

    It's probably smart to think of encryption at different echelons. One for nation states, and at least another for commercial activities.

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    In going over some federal investigation/prosecution statistics, I found some interesting numbers relating to difficulties encountered by investigators, directly relating to encryption. Here's some numbers (over five years):

    2014:

    https://www.uscourts.gov/statistics-...ap-report-2014

    The number of state wiretaps in which encryption was encountered decreased from 41 in 2013 to 22 in 2014. In two of these wiretaps, officials were unable to decipher the plain text of the messages. Three federal wiretaps were reported as being encrypted in 2014, of which two could not be decrypted. Encryption was also reported for five federal wiretaps that were conducted during previous years, but reported to the AO for the first time in 2014. Officials were able to decipher the plain text of the communications in four of the five intercepts.


    2015:

    https://www.uscourts.gov/statistics-...ap-report-2015

    The number of state wiretaps in which encryption was encountered decreased from 22 in 2014 to 7 in 2015. In all of these wiretaps, officials were unable to decipher the plain text of the messages. Six federal wiretaps were reported as being encrypted in 2015, of which four could not be decrypted. Encryption was also reported for one federal wiretap that was conducted during a previous year, but reported to the AO for the first time in 2015. Officials were not able to decipher the plain text of the communications in that intercept.


    2016:

    https://www.uscourts.gov/statistics-...ap-report-2016

    The number of state wiretaps reported in which encryption was encountered increased from 7 in 2015 to 57 in 2016. In 48 of these wiretaps, officials were unable to decipher the plain text of the messages. A total of 68 federal wiretaps were reported as being encrypted in 2016, of which 53 could not be decrypted. Encryption was also reported for 20 federal and 19 state wiretaps that were conducted during a previous year, but reported to the AO for the first time in 2016. Officials were not able to decipher the plain text of the communications in any of the state intercepts or in 13 of the federal of intercepts.


    2017:

    https://www.uscourts.gov/statistics-...ap-report-2017

    The number of state wiretaps reported in which encryption was encountered increased from 57 in 2016 to 102 in 2017. In 97 of these wiretaps, officials were unable to decipher the plain text of the messages. A total of 57 federal wiretaps were reported as being encrypted in 2017, of which 37 could not be decrypted. Encryption was also reported for 32 federal and 9 state wiretaps that were conducted during a previous year, but reported to the AO for the first time in 2017. Officials were not able to decipher the plain text of the communications in 8 of the state intercepts or 29 of the federal of intercepts.


    2018:

    https://www.uscourts.gov/statistics-...ap-report-2018

    The number of state wiretaps reported in which encryption was encountered increased from 102 in 2017 to 146 in 2018. In 134 of these state wiretaps, officials were unable to decipher the plain text of the messages. A total of 74 federal wiretaps were reported as being encrypted in 2018, of which 58 could not be decrypted.

    ----

    As you can see, AES-256 can help maintain your privacy. I highly suspect in the cases where the encryption was defeated, investigators obtained the key(s) through the following methods:

    - Accused person cooperated and provided key or otherwise assisted with accessing the secured data;

    - Encryption algorithm was weak (garbage like RC4 or DES) and it was cracked through brute-force methods;

    - The password or key-variable (even in AES implementation) was brute-forced due to weak/poor choice of key/password;

    - A service such as Skype was used, and investigators served a wiretap warrant/order on Microsoft or other provider, where the encryption is not end-to-end, or relayed through a server;

    - Hardware device compromised where key-recovery took place. Laptop memory, iPhone owned with Cellebrite hardware,accidental/stupid storage of a key or recovery key, in the clear, on other media, etc.

    Still, the numbers from US DOJ show encryption has thwarted law enforcement investigations with a high degree of success.

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