Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 28

Thread: XTS-5000 GPS Function

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 14, 2012
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    43
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default XTS-5000 GPS Function

    Hi all,

    I have been kicking around the idea of buying a Commander 2 mic for the GPS function. This is new to me and haven't really seen anything in the CPS as far as GPS function. If I buy the Commander 2 mic, will the radio recognize it when I attach it to my XTS5K? If it does, will it display my current GPS coordinates? I'm definately new when it comes to the GPS function. Any questions, thoughts, and/or concerns?

    Thanks,

    Mike


  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 16, 2012
    Location
    terra australis incognita
    Posts
    474
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts

    Default

    The genuine GPS functionality is extremely limited, I believe you can call up your lat/long on the display but that's about it without a six-figure investment in infrastructure!

    ASTRO 25 Location Tracking Solutions

    Location data is transmitted OTA using LRRP (Location Request/Response Protocol), a Motorola proprietary protocol which is why I mentioned the infrastructure above which is needed on the receiving end to make use of it.

    A non-OEM solution, with thanks to Throwed, is one of these:

    Wintec WGT-168 G-Talk GPS Speaker Mic

    which can be ordered with a cable to connect to the XTS range.
    Andrew

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 14, 2012
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    43
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    Thanks, the idea came to me when I was on a crash. For my crash report, if its mid-block, meaning not at an intersection, I have to locate the two closest cross roads and then measure the distance to one. I also have the option to negate the whole thing by entering GPS coordinates. As far as dispatch tracking me, I don't want that and believe me, my county is no where near that capable. I'm just being lazy thats all...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 16, 2012
    Location
    terra australis incognita
    Posts
    474
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts

    Default

    I don't actually have a GPS mic for an ASTRO 25 radio but I assume, as is the case with the APX Family, that you can display your coordinates but that's all, there are no regular GPS functions like waypoints and such.

    On the other hand, those Wintec mics appear to function much more like a 'proper' handheld GPS unit with waypoints, distance, direction, track logs etc., I don't think they have the option of loading maps (pity) but I guess that would make them much more expensive too?
    Andrew

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 14, 2012
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    43
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    I just may spend the $100.00 dollars to get one off of ebay. If it works, great if not oh well.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 16, 2012
    Location
    terra australis incognita
    Posts
    474
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts

    Default

    The only thing to consider is the mission critical aspect if you're a first responder, but I guess you can always just disconnect it from the radio should the need arise?

    Also, I'm not sure if those Wintec mics take batteries or draw power from the radio, and if so what it would do for you battery life, but as you say, it's probably still worth a look?

    Let us know your opinion of it once you've had the chance to evaluate too?
    Andrew

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 28, 2012
    Posts
    5
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    I have three of the Commander II mics that enable a GPS location. The is a tab in the RADIO WIDE directory of the CPS named LOCATION. There are two tabs, LOCATION ENABLE and USER SELECTABLE LOCATION ENABLE one of which must be selected to function although I select both. One thing that I didn't realize, and it took someone at M to disassemble a mic in order to tell me, that there is supposed to be a battery inside the unit (the first one I purchased had a block of sponge rubber in it and didn't work even after installing a battery). I don't know if the battery is charged by the radio or not but they want a ton of money like $75.00 for their special little cellphone battery. If you purchase one don't be surprised if it takes fifteen to twenty minutes to initialize the first time you use it. Take it outside, turn it on, select the location prompt, and let it alone for a while.
    Good Luck,
    Greg

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 14, 2012
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    43
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    Yeah, I had no clue there was a battery inside of the speaker mic. There isn't much information out there about the mic...

    Thanks,
    Mike

  9. #9
    Alpha's Avatar
    Alpha is offline T S - Moderator
    CS Forums $upporter
    Join Date
    Feb 12, 2012
    Location
    Directly above the center of the earth.
    Posts
    2,688
    Thanks
    837
    Thanked 1,361 Times in 670 Posts
    Country: Christmas Island

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Copperonly View Post
    Thanks, the idea came to me when I was on a crash. For my crash report, if its mid-block, meaning not at an intersection, I have to locate the two closest cross roads and then measure the distance to one. I also have the option to negate the whole thing by entering GPS coordinates. As far as dispatch tracking me, I don't want that and believe me, my county is no where near that capable. I'm just being lazy thats all...
    Use your phone to take a picture on the spot, and turn on Geolocation! That will tag the picture with your GPS coordinates automatically - no need to make a note or copy coordinates, etc!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 14, 2012
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    43
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    I have never done that with my phone. Not a half bad idea. The only thing that I'm concerned with is if I take anything with my phone, it opens it up to court orders. Meaning a defense attorney has the option to subpoena my phone and have access to everything in there. Photos, phone numbers, text messages etc... Now personally I don't think it would happen but a slick defense attorney may pop up and say give ne tour phone. This may happen once in every 1000 times...

  11. #11
    Alpha's Avatar
    Alpha is offline T S - Moderator
    CS Forums $upporter
    Join Date
    Feb 12, 2012
    Location
    Directly above the center of the earth.
    Posts
    2,688
    Thanks
    837
    Thanked 1,361 Times in 670 Posts
    Country: Christmas Island

    Default

    Get a second phone with a minimal service plan, or a pay-as-you-go deal, and only use that for evidence collection...

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 29, 2012
    Posts
    65
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts

    Default

    In the past I had spent a bit of money on GPSes, software and all that. These days I just take a picture with my GPS enabled camera to record waypoints. Its bulky, but it does away with trying to store a waypoint, remembering what it was, and downloading them from the GPS. Ironically I do this with a Nikon D300s, the GPS adapter cable, and an ancient Garmin 12XL.

  13. #13
    Astro Spectra's Avatar
    Astro Spectra is offline T S - Moderator
    CS Forums $upporter
    Join Date
    Nov 22, 2012
    Posts
    831
    Thanks
    278
    Thanked 502 Times in 257 Posts
    Country: Great Britain

    Default

    It is actually possible to read the GPS mic over the air using the Location Request/Response Protocol (LRRP) used on both Motorola P25 and MotoTRBO systems without IV&D infrastructure. The XML location ideas used in LRRP are based on the work done by the Location Inter-operability Forum (LIF). The LRRP is partly standardized via TR8.5 of the TIA P25 effort.

    In essence you set up an XTL (or even an XTS) as a base radio connected to a PC using a RS-232 serial port. The base radio is set up to support IP over serial (SLIP) and assigned an IP address (this is done in the set-up software, easy to say in practice but it’s quite complex to get to work). The remaining field radios need to be on the same IP sub net, see the text messaging set-up description on http://www.akardam.net/moto/docs/xts5k_tms.php to get an idea of how to initially set up networking.

    The base radio appears to the PC as a modem and using the standard Windows control panel the radio (showing as a modem) is configured to support SLIP (just as in the old days of dial-up Internet).

    You then send XML strings via UDP to each radio's IP address and LRRP port number telling the radio to report say every minute. A response is received from the mobile confirming the command. From then on you'll receive a location report.

    It all works and I've done this myself. You need access to the following Motorola documents (which you can get by joining Motorola's TRBO developer's group):

    Location Request / Response Protocol (LRRP) Profile For ASTRO 25 Integrated Voice & Data (IV&D) Systems: Personnel Location Tracking
    ASTRO 25 Personnel Location Tracking System OVerview
    Motorola Binary XML (MBXML) Encoding Specification

    And the following docuemnt is a good overview of the whole thing:

    Presence Notifier Application

    Of course the same set up should work for text messaging but you need the TMS port number and TMS XML docs neither of which I've found.
    Last edited by Astro Spectra; Nov 23, 2012 at 02:27 AM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 16, 2012
    Location
    terra australis incognita
    Posts
    474
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts

    Default

    Was there supposed to be URL links in that last post?

    Any chance you could attach these docs here for those of us who can't join Motorola's group?
    Andrew

  15. #15
    syntrx No Longer Registered

    Default

    I'm guessing probably not, this stuff is under NDA.

    How did you join the developer program? I had a hard time getting Motorola to actually return any of my phone calls.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 14, 2012
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    43
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    Well I received the Commander II GPS Mic today. There was a tag on the radio that I have never seen before, the operating instructions. It reads as followed:
    Before first use, this GPS RMS muct be charged for a 12 hour period.
    Steps for charging:
    1. Attach GPS RMS to an XTS5000 radio.
    2. Power on the radio.
    3. Ensure radio battery charger is plugged in and placed in a location away from all outside views (windows, skylights, doors).
    4. Place powered-on radio with GPS RMS still attached into radio batery charger.
    5. Leave powered-on radio with GPS RMS attached in charger for 12 hours.
    6. Follow same proceedure daily for an 8 to 12 hour charging cycle.

    Ok, so now I have some questions. I'm assuming this proceedure is used to charge the battery inside of the RMS. I have the IMPRES batteries and am under the impression that you cannot leave the radio on when its charging. Also on my XTS5K, the sateilite icon is flashing. I have not had the chance to enable the options in the CPS. I am planning on doing that after work tonight...
    Last edited by Copperonly; Nov 23, 2012 at 04:02 PM.

  17. #17
    Astro Spectra's Avatar
    Astro Spectra is offline T S - Moderator
    CS Forums $upporter
    Join Date
    Nov 22, 2012
    Posts
    831
    Thanks
    278
    Thanked 502 Times in 257 Posts
    Country: Great Britain

    Default

    Developer Program References

    Motorola Solutions Worldwide Radio Solutions Applications Developer Program Portal

    https://mototrbodev.motorolasolutions.com

    PowerPoint overview of program:

    https://launchpad.motorolasolutions....evMOTOTRBO.pdf

    MOTOTRBO™ Application Development Kit Overview:

    https://mototrbodev.motorolasolution...K_Overview.pdf

    Section 6 Appendix lists available documentation.

    If you are interested in Astro 25 or TRBO platform protocols join this!


    LRRP References

    As it happens the ASTRO 25 Personnel Location Tracking Overview doc can be found on the China Mobile Developer Network website (the posting there has nothing to do with me, thank Google for finding it):

    http://dev.10086.cn/cmdn/wiki/index....load-1246.html

    Now the other documents I mentioned previously I can’t find ‘in the wild’. I’m sorry to be a spoil sport and I certainly don’t want a reputation as a cattle rustler but the docs are Motorola Confidential Proprietary and you will have to either get them direct from Motorola or they can be obtained quite easily from the Applications Developer site once you sign up to their NDA.

    The point is even if you’re not interested in TRBO many of the specs relate to the Astro 25 platform.


    The LIF overview doc is easily obtained from Columbia University here:

    http://www.cs.columbia.edu/sip/draft...1%20v2.0.0.pdf


    SU Ports

    The final piece of the puzzle you need to actually implement this is the IP port number that supports LRRP on the IP stack implemented in the Astro 25 platform; these are able to be found on the web and indeed on this site, but to save the trouble of tracking them down again:

    4001 UDP port address of the location application
    4005 UDP port address of the registration application

    Other interesting ports:

    4007 TMS (news to me)
    49165 ‘Authentication Service, for tactical OTAR et al’
    49223 ‘Port where the radio expects to receive DLI OTAR KMMs from a KMF’
    8675 TCP Customer Programming Software for Radio Management
    8675 UDP Customer Programming Software for Radio Management Discovery

    Sources:

    http://lists.thedatalist.com/portlist

    Motorola Personnel Location Tracking Overview

    P25.ca user: syntrx from https://www.p25.ca/threads/1098-The-...X-TCP-IP-stack

  18. #18
    Astro Spectra's Avatar
    Astro Spectra is offline T S - Moderator
    CS Forums $upporter
    Join Date
    Nov 22, 2012
    Posts
    831
    Thanks
    278
    Thanked 502 Times in 257 Posts
    Country: Great Britain

    Default

    To Copperonly: you will absolutely need to leave it on charge (it charges from the XTS battery – you don’t actually need to leave it the radio charger if the XTS battery is good) . After charging leave on in full view of the sky for some hours as the GPS needs to gather the satellite ephemeris, almanac, and local GPS clock offset data from one or two sats before it can start to work out where you are. Once it has the needed information the next fix will be much much faster. However, if the GPS battery goes flat the time to first fix will be as long as the initial fix as the GPS needs the internal battery charged to hold the current constellation info and your last known location.
    Last edited by Astro Spectra; Nov 23, 2012 at 04:46 PM.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 14, 2012
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    43
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    Is there any way that you can tell if the battery's charge is complete? Will the sateillite LCD icon stop flashing? Just curious

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 12, 2012
    Location
    Posts
    100
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro Spectra View Post
    It is actually possible to read the GPS mic over the air using the Location Request/Response Protocol (LRRP) used on both Motorola P25 and MotoTRBO systems without IV&D infrastructure. The XML location ideas used in LRRP are based on the work done by the Location Inter-operability Forum (LIF). The LRRP is partly standardized via TR8.5 of the TIA P25 effort.

    In essence you set up an XTL (or even an XTS) as a base radio connected to a PC using a RS-232 serial port. The base radio is set up to support IP over serial (SLIP) and assigned an IP address (this is done in the set-up software, easy to say in practice but it’s quite complex to get to work). The remaining field radios need to be on the same IP sub net, see the text messaging set-up description on http://www.akardam.net/moto/docs/xts5k_tms.php to get an idea of how to initially set up networking.

    The base radio appears to the PC as a modem and using the standard Windows control panel the radio (showing as a modem) is configured to support SLIP (just as in the old days of dial-up Internet).

    You then send XML strings via UDP to each radio's IP address and LRRP port number telling the radio to report say every minute. A response is received from the mobile confirming the command. From then on you'll receive a location report.

    It all works and I've done this myself. You need access to the following Motorola documents (which you can get by joining Motorola's TRBO developer's group):

    Location Request / Response Protocol (LRRP) Profile For ASTRO 25 Integrated Voice & Data (IV&D) Systems: Personnel Location Tracking
    ASTRO 25 Personnel Location Tracking System OVerview
    Motorola Binary XML (MBXML) Encoding Specification

    And the following docuemnt is a good overview of the whole thing:

    Presence Notifier Application

    Of course the same set up should work for text messaging but you need the TMS port number and TMS XML docs neither of which I've found.
    do you have this plotting the coordinates on a mapping program? or is the computer just logging the data?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella237 View Post
    I've never really bothered 'playing' with ADP (it's like owning a Harley but still riding a tricycle)

  21. #21
    Astro Spectra's Avatar
    Astro Spectra is offline T S - Moderator
    CS Forums $upporter
    Join Date
    Nov 22, 2012
    Posts
    831
    Thanks
    278
    Thanked 502 Times in 257 Posts
    Country: Great Britain

    Default

    Sure, if you call Google Earth a mapping program. Ive not mastered the GE JavaScript API so my experience is restricted to manually creating KML files from the received data so that the plots show on GE. If your idea of a mapping program is Ersi ArcGIS then that would be a no.

  22. #22
    brizey No Longer Registered

    Default

    I have experience with ArcGIS and PostGIS would be glad to help if someone wanted to get handle the LRRP side of stuff.

  23. #23
    spectreman No Longer Registered

    Default XTS-5000 GPS Function

    Hi all.
    There is a new GPS II speaker mic that came out not too long ago.
    This new GPS mic does not have the internal battery in it to charge.
    Just runs straight off the radio battery.
    But they are expensive new, about $300 !
    Cheers, Chris.

  24. #24
    Xstqxrvax No Longer Registered

    Default

    charginf ur remote mic? not a great design. Id rather go with a speaker mic like the one mentioned above

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 28, 2012
    Posts
    1,322
    Thanks
    120
    Thanked 1,495 Times in 451 Posts
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xstqxrvax;****4
    charginf ur remote mic? not a great design.
    What does this mean?