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Thread: APX8500 Remote Mount Resetting

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    Default APX8500 Remote Mount Resetting

    I have two County Ambulances with newly installed dual remote head APX8500's that are complaining of the radio occasionally resetting whenever they pickup the hand mic. I have swapped out the power harness and the O7 head on one of them. The other vehicle that showed up today couldn't duplicate the problem. The one thing in common on these is that they are both using the MAGNETIC MIC hangers. I am beginning to wonder if there is something (impulse?) being induced into the mic (and thus the control head) whenever the mic is pulled away from these very strong magnets.

    Has anyone seen any ill effects from these mic hangers?


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    Are these high power or mid power units? We have sent several high power units back for PA fails straight from the box. Still have not received the high power units back from repair. We had another issue as you described with resetting but it was a wiring issue from the upfit vendor.

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    Make sure the installation wiring is followed exactly. Power connections need to go as defined in the manual.

    Are you encrypted? MACE errors have not come up unlike the earlier XTL fleet. Look at grounds and power to mke sure they all go where they are supposed to. Upfitters take shortcuts.
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    That sounds like a ground loop issue stemming from the radio deck or one of the heads not having a solid DC ground. I'll second what com501 said on it being absolutely critical that both heads and the radio deck should be sourced from the same B+ and battery ground point using the shortest wiring runs possible. The secondary/slave head should also not have ignition power connected, only the primary head. You need to go over every truck this "upfitter" has worked on and verify that all of the wiring is safe and correct because it's possible that a head or the radio itself is pulling DC negative across the microphone or the antenna mounts.

    I've done a couple dozen installs with Magnetic Mic holders in every vehicle chassis you can think of, including ambulances with dual heads, and have not seen what you have described. I have, however, seen myriad problems stemming from bad wiring provided by the ambulance manufacturer. Upfitters don't touch anything I work on.

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    These are mid power units. No encryption at this time. So the unit I swapped to a standard mic hanger came back today (while I was gone) with the same complaint and my co-worker swapped out both of the O7 heads. We'll see. I am going to get these units back in the shop to verify the "up-fitter" wiring and also verify antenna performance (just because.) The complaints range from sometimes they reset on their own, when they pick up the mic to sometimes upon PTT. They are data capable so they do transmit location data roughly every 45 seconds. Not sure a radio would reset from a VSWR issue during a short data transmission.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LLFordman View Post
    The complaints range from sometimes they reset on their own, when they pick up the mic to sometimes upon PTT. They are data capable so they do transmit location data roughly every 45 seconds.
    That REALLY sounds like bad DC wiring. A loose/bad connection would cause the radio to power-cycle on TX from current draw.

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    Well, since replacing the control heads, we have heard nothing further from either crew regarding the reset issue. Going to give it a bit more time. Only problem with both control heads being replaced at the same time is, which one is bad, or is it both of them? Intermittent resets are frustrating.

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    The ambulance on which I had swapped out the power harness came back in today with the same issue. Turns out, the power harness I just installed a few weeks ago has failed. The ground pin is intermittent inside the molded area of the connector and also appears to be showing signs of heating or some sort of carbonizing. The pin for the ignition doesn't appear to be intermittent but does show signs of heating/carbonizing as well. So we swapped out the power harness again, we'll see how long it lasts. While digging deeper into all this, I looked at the pair of O7 heads pulled from the other ambulance. What do I find? Two pins stuck in the back of J200 power jack. These two pins are not tied to the Black, Yellow, Red or the speaker wires so I don't know if they had any wires connected to them at all. When I pulleded them from the jack, they had what looked like arc marks on the pins and some sort of carbon dust falling off. This could just be some form of corrosion but why in just a matter of a few weeks? I have a case open with Motorola. We'll see what comes of it.

    APX J200 pins.jpg
    MR14 cable 2.jpg
    MR14 cable.jpg

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    on the 8500 high power is a board issue or a bad batch of PA's ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech55 View Post
    on the 8500 high power is a board issue or a bad batch of PA's ?
    You need to use complete sentences next time, please. I can barely tell what that means.
    Queue Moderator and Scene Whore Extraordinaire.

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    Does this rig have two batteries? One for the vehicle and one for the box? Is ALL power wiring hooked to the same battery? Is ignition sense on the front battery and all other power on the rear battery (bad)? Is there a battery switch?

    Make sure ALL the power connections for the radio - including GROUNDS are on the front (rig) battery. Does the MASTER disconnect (on the panel, if you have one) shut off ALL power to whichever battery is powering the radio? We have been installing XTLs since there inception. I have NEVER seen a power lead fail unless it was cut or the radio was installed incorrectly.
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    Two 12v batteries in parallel. No battery disconnect switch (surprisingly.) No dc-dc converters or anything like that. The RF deck, both front and rear heads get power from the same buss located in a closet just aft of the driver position. Ignition sense is disabled in the codeplug. Only one head has the yellow IGN lead connected. This same unit came back in yesterday complaining the radio was dead and wouldn't power on. After R&R'ing power from the RF deck, it came back to life as if nothing ever happened. I've heard nothing back yet from Motorola regarding my case.

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    Who is the upfitter/chassis manufacturer? I've had nothing but problems from AEV wiring, but Horton seems to be OK. Haven't had an opportunity to work on a Frazier or a Braun.

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    I believe these are built by Wheeled Coach in Orlando.

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    Worst thing is AEV, Horton and Wheeled Coach are all owned by REV Group. I swear they been cost cutting on build quality over the years.

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    If it's the ground pin that has overheated it means something that sucks a lot of juice prefers the current to flow through to chassis via the negative lead of the radio rather than the intended path. It'll be a ground problem for sure.
    It is a fine thing to be honest, but it is also very important to be right

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    I've seen that with dozers that had the battery cut-off switch inline with the battery negative. Someone wired the radio "straight" to the battery and when they turned on the key and tried to start it with the battery switch in the off position it vaporized the radio negative power lead as current made its way through the chassis to ground.

    There was some mention of an issue with one of the on-board chargers in these units but we haven't investigated that yet to see if it has any bearing on this.

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    IMO, everything going on here is pointing towards a bad or faulty ground the radio is hooked too.

    My guess is the radio is pulling negative from everywhere (Antenna/s, Control heads, etc,,etc,) Except for the one place that needs it most the Radio Negative. That is the only thing I can think of that would explain burnt pins like that.

    Also, Check for a faulty battery negative to chassis ground. Also check for Good ground ground between Vehicle Chassis ground and Aux batteries.

    My guess is the on-board charger is having issue do to the same thing that is causing the radio issue. Find the ground issue and both radio and inverter will probably be working again.

    If it is the fault of the bus builder, I would be contacting them on what they want to do. They can pay for all your time and parts or not to bother bidding next time.
    Radio Referenced...Those who think they know it all are very annoying to those of use who do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by medic550 View Post
    Worst thing is AEV, Horton and Wheeled Coach are all owned by REV Group. I swear they been cost cutting on build quality over the years.
    Wow. The difference between AEV and Horton build quality is literal night and day.

    I feel safe using factory-supplied prewires on Horton boxes because everything is clearly labeled and routed consistently and I can trace it back to its origin point. AEV... mmmnot so much.

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    Well, y'all nailed it. We recalled the unit with the connector heating issues. Measured the resistance between the center console mounted ground bar and the chassis batteries and what did we find?!? 62 ohms!!! I immediately pulled the transceiver and told fleet to get the coach builder involved. As of this morning, three more units have shown up with likely the same issue.

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