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Thread: XTL No Affiliate Issue

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    Default XTL No Affiliate Issue

    I've got an XTL1500 that is driving me nuts and won't no affiliate scan. Background - Radio as received by me was analog only with old FW (11 I think? I forget now..). The flashcode was upgraded to support digital & trunking, FW & DSP updated to latest greatest with a legit iButton. Program in a system near me that I've done countless times on other radios... and nothing. Crickets. Program in the control channel as a conventional channel and it's loud and clear. Program in voice channels as conventional with the proper NAC, same thing, loud and clear. But it won't trunk... alignment issue? I'm thinking that's all that's really left. I've been over the programming a dozen times and compared to saved codeplugs from previous XTLs scanning the same system and all looks good. Ready to heave the damn thing out the window at this point! And yes I know I should have saved the tuning values before upgrading the FW and I totally forgot... which may have now bitten me in the ***


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    The firmware bump won't touch the tuning values on Astro 25. If you're absolutely positive you have the Astro 25 Channel IDs correct (or OBT band plan), then an alignment is the next logical step -- and likely the cause of your troubles.
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    Yep...100% sure on the channel ID.

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    The only alignment parameter that affects the receiver would be the reference oscillator adjustment found in the transmitter section of tuner and would be an easy fix if found to be off frequency. However, there might be something else at play, I’ll explain.

    I had an XTL5000 that I was trying to get running on NAS a couple of years ago that exhibited the same exact behavior as you have described with your XTL1500. Here is what I discovered after exhaustively going over everything I could think of. I put the XTL into Debug Mode to pull a DSP Dump while the radio should have been sitting on the active control channel, but found no evidence the radio was decoding TSBK’s.

    Here is the dump. [HEX data omitted]

    DSPUMP
    #21228 00002.1ms H->D 0002 RSSI_REQUEST
    #21229 00010.0ms D->H 0001 RSSI_RESPONSE
    #21232 00101.0ms H->D 0003 APCO_RX_SETUP
    #21234 00008.7ms H->D 0002 ENABLE_RX_MODE
    #21235 00000.2ms D->H 0001 MODE_SWITCH
    #21237 00002.1ms H->D 0002 RSSI_REQUEST
    #21238 00010.2ms D->H 0001 RSSI_RESPONSE
    #21241 00003.4ms H->D 0003 APCO_RX_SETUP
    #21243 00009.0ms H->D 0002 ENABLE_RX_MODE
    #21244 00000.2ms D->H 0001 MODE_SWITCH

    Repeating the same test as above but on a newer XTL500 with NAS working, and where the second radio has the identical Flashcode, Firmware, Channel ID, and NAS programming yielded the following results.

    [Again,HEX Data has been omitted]

    DSPUMP
    #08921 00002.9ms H->D 0002 RSSI_REQUEST
    #08922 00010.0ms D->H 0001 RSSI_RESPONSE
    #08925 00003.6ms H->D 0003 APCO_RX_SETUP
    #08929 00003.1ms D->H 0001 RSSI_ALERT_DH
    #08931 00005.8ms H->D 0002 ENABLE_RX_MODE
    #08932 00000.2ms D->H 0001 MODE_SWITCH
    #08934 00001.2ms H->D 0003 RSSI_ALERT_SETUP_HD
    #08935 00001.4ms H->D 0002 RSSI_REQUEST
    #08936 00010.0ms D->H 0001 RSSI_RESPONSE
    #08937 00025.1ms D->H 0000 CARRIER_DETECT
    #08938 00049.8ms D->H 0002 APCO_SYNC_DETECT
    #08939 00000.2ms D->H 0001 MODE_SWITCH
    #08940 00001.4ms H->D 0001 APCO_SLOT_SYNC_SETUP
    #08941 00000.2ms H->D 0002 CCA_SYNC_BCST_SETUP
    #08942 00018.7ms D->H 0008 APCO_RX_TSBK
    #08943 00020.9ms D->H 0008 APCO_RX_TSBK
    #08944 00020.7ms D->H 0001 CCA_SLOT_TX_STATUS
    #08945 00000.2ms D->H 0008 APCO_RX_TSBK

    I am not knowledgeable on the Processor or DSP internals, but it was my conclusion that early production XTL’s released (sold) to **ANALOG** use customers likely did not support APCO 25 9600 baud trunking, irrespective of subsequent Flashcode changes made or Firmware updates applied. Perhaps it was just a hardware failure but then again I might be right about my conclusion. I hope someone will jump in here that may have the answer.

    Bill

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    Can confirm that the reference oscillator being out of alignment will prevent an XTL1500 from locking on to an Astro25 CC at all or delay lock by several minutes. I've encountered that exact issue and alignment was the fix.

    My next guess was that it was a Harris system issue, but if you've made other XTLs work that's obviously not the problem.
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    It IS a Harris system, but you are correct.. I've had other XTL/XTS radios work with this system no problem. I'll monkey around with the reference oscillator a little and see if I can make some magic happen, otherwise I'll have to track down someone in Ontario that can do an alignment I suppose!

    Thanks for the input everyone!

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    Keep in mind that the XTL1500 is a different animal that the 2500 and 5000. You can't put in a FC for 3600 and 9600 and it has to be one or the other, so when you say "digital" what did you load in?
    If you post the FC it might assist with additional troubleshooting.

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    The reference oscillator adjustment doesn't require any exotic test gear. Using Tuner you key the radio in the Reference Oscillator section and it will put out
    a dead carrier that can be checked with a frequency counter or against some other standard. Alternatively, if you don't have a frequency counter or the means to measure the frequency then note the existing setting and try moving the value up and then down in increments to see if that makes any difference. I'd suggest putting the
    radio into Debug the pulling the DSP Dumps to see if it shows any response to the Trunk Signaling Blocks on the control channel. This will take some time to do but it is a work around that might help.

    Remember to put the Reference Oscillator back to the original setting in Tuner if you aren't able to get it working. This way you'll at least be back where you stared from and not add to the complexity of additional troublshooting proceedures.

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by gsxxr1300r View Post
    You can't put in a FC for 3600 and 9600 and it has to be one or the other.
    508048-001494-7 is quite happy in an XTL1500 doing both 3600 and 9600 under one roof.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gsxxr1300r View Post
    Keep in mind that the XTL1500 is a different animal that the 2500 and 5000. You can't put in a FC for 3600 and 9600 and it has to be one or the other, so when you say "digital" what did you load in?
    If you post the FC it might assist with additional troubleshooting.
    In the OP, he clearly states the FC was changed. I have a 1500 that’s a 5000 now, & plenty of 2500’s that are now 5000’s. Except for the control head, they are the same radios. I’d go with the alignment. GARY.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CQDX View Post
    508048-001494-7 is quite happy in an XTL1500 doing both 3600 and 9600 under one roof.
    Interesting FC.. but I'd still like to see the FC that the OP is using. That might clarify a few things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by N4KVE View Post
    In the OP, he clearly states the FC was changed. I have a 1500 that’s a 5000 now, & plenty of 2500’s that are now 5000’s. Except for the control head, they are the same radios. I’d go with the alignment. GARY.
    Changing the FC doesn't change the model of the radio and allow you to change the control head. If it's still an XTL1500 physically there are limits to the original low tier radio.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gsxxr1300r View Post
    Changing the FC doesn't change the model of the radio and allow you to change the control head. If it's still an XTL1500 physically there are limits to the original low tier radio.
    But if the firmware is changed, than it "becomes" the same. I've owned several an XTL1500 7/8 that were "upgraded" at some point and wore XTL5000 clothing with XTL5000 "underwear" on (firmware loaded via iButton). Radios worked flawlessly on a 7.15 (now 7.16) trunking system, including hardware UCM and software (ADP) crypto.

    The hardware is all the same under the hood, or so the service manuals elude to.
    Your streaming makes me AES-256. Keep it up and you'll soon have nothing to listen to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTS2000DES View Post
    But if the firmware is changed, than it "becomes" the same. I've owned several an XTL1500 7/8 that were "upgraded" at some point and wore XTL5000 clothing with XTL5000 "underwear" on (firmware loaded via iButton). Radios worked flawlessly on a 7.15 (now 7.16) trunking system, including hardware UCM and software (ADP) crypto.

    The hardware is all the same under the hood, or so the service manuals elude to.
    Yes I'm totally aware of that and have done the same..... but if you don't change the clothing it will not operate the same. With that I think we have gotten of the expressway of the OP's original query. LOL

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    I’m not sure why there is so much confusion in this thread. A 1500 is a 2500 is a 5000 internally. The board just needs to be given the corresponding model number and then flashed with 9600 trunking. Yes, it will work even though the box and heads are different.

    The OP is monitoring a Harris system and programming the 1500 the same way as working radios. As a reminder, Harris systems can have very strange configurations. If the radio validates the NAC against the system then the radio might not work since some Harris systems don’t follow the “Motorola protocol”. Also, the channel ID position has to be just right and the voice channels need to be entered as control channels.

    Align the radio, double-check the programming for Harris quicks, and try it again.

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