Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Making TMS more robust?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 01, 2019
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    15
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Country: United States

    Default Making TMS more robust?

    Hello, another person and I have been testing the Text Messaging Service on a couple of XTS5000 portables. We have a Codan P25 repeater between us. The failure rate is somewhere in the neighborhood of 60%. My question, is it possible to make TMS more robust? Like making it retry or adding preambles. Below is a pic of the current setup. Thanks.

    Last edited by Astro Spectra; Nov 03, 2019 at 01:42 PM. Reason: Grammer


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 31, 2015
    Posts
    413
    Thanks
    499
    Thanked 436 Times in 184 Posts
    Country: United States

    Default

    TMS was meant to be used with a server in the process. Without the server, it seems unit-to-unit is not very reliable. We got the same here tinkering with it - and even over simplex (within a mile of each other) it was only about 80%. If it wasn't for the fact that Motorola made the entire thing proprietary - it would be nice to stick a small computer (server) to run the ARS and TMS and be able to have the messages store-and-forward.

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Navy_BOFH For This Useful Post:

    geekguy15 (Nov 05, 2019),MotoBill (Nov 05, 2019)

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 01, 2019
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    15
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Country: United States

    Default

    Ya that is rather unfortunate. Thanks for the info though, I'm assuming the server side is something directly licensed through /\/\ and not available second hand as well?

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 15, 2019
    Posts
    77
    Thanks
    59
    Thanked 165 Times in 59 Posts
    Country: Australia

    Default

    The protocol is the same as (or very similar to) that used by TRBO. The protocol spec is NDAed.

    Products designed for TRBO *might* work, but I haven't tested them. Might be worth a shot.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 21, 2011
    Posts
    4,619
    Thanks
    3,988
    Thanked 6,991 Times in 1,990 Posts
    Country: Canada

    Default

    With MOTOTRBO-branded DMR TMS, you can enable "Data Call Confirmation" (sub programming) on a direct or IPSC channel. This serves as TMS confirmation, among other things. The radio will send the message until it's acknowledged by the receiving party. Data Call Confirmation is built-in to Capacity Plus and Capacity Plus MS. Assuming Connect+ and Capacity Max, too.

    DCC.jpg

    Also, loosely related, if anyone is using TMS for dispatch purposes, there will soon be PC software available for sending regular SMS (over LTE, HSPA, etc.) that's updated and able to function with the new Rich Communication Services (RCS) "standard" (made by Google), which is the next evolution in text message. Carriers are slowly adopting it. I would say we're still at least a year or two out from progress. It will function on both Android and Apple units.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_C...ation_Services

    Best way to explain it, is it's essentially iMessage, but not Apple-specific.

    - Confirmed messages
    - Better quality image/video (large file sizes)
    - Group messaging

    There is one massive issue with RCS, however: No end-to-end encryption. It's susceptible to carrier surveillance. At least with MOTOTRBO TMS, the content of your message is protected by whatever means of encryption you may elect to use, up to and inclusive of AES-256.

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Mars For This Useful Post:

    com501 (Nov 07, 2019),slim (Nov 15, 2019)

  8. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 18, 2013
    Location
    In Your Network
    Posts
    2,625
    Thanks
    2,459
    Thanked 1,756 Times in 889 Posts
    Country: Holy See

    Default

    Encryption is a major issue. Why would anyone put out messaging that was susceptible to monitoring. Until this is fixed, we should all use other methods of communications. Unless, of course, it is the intent of the carriers to allow messages and content to be monitored, making it easy for the TLAs to gather data.
    Apparently NOT a radio professional.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to com501 For This Useful Post:

    Mars (Nov 07, 2019)

  10. #7
    Alpha's Avatar
    Alpha is offline T S - Moderator
    CS Forums $upporter
    Join Date
    Feb 12, 2012
    Location
    Directly above the center of the earth.
    Posts
    2,715
    Thanks
    910
    Thanked 1,402 Times in 687 Posts
    Country: Christmas Island

    Default

    Signal for the win, baby. E2E encryption that makes the feds cry, and no soul-sucking MITM mega-corp like FaceBooger or Twatter.

    At least for now...

  11. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Alpha For This Useful Post:

    com501 (Nov 19, 2019),Mars (Nov 08, 2019),motorola_otaku (Nov 10, 2019)

  12. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 21, 2011
    Posts
    4,619
    Thanks
    3,988
    Thanked 6,991 Times in 1,990 Posts
    Country: Canada

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Signal for the win, baby. E2E encryption that makes the feds cry, and no soul-sucking MITM mega-corp like FaceBooger or Twatter.

    At least for now...
    So long as the masses realize in a majority of instances where interception is required, it's not done at the phone, it's done by grabbing a copy of the cloud backup.

    Many people don't realize how vulnerable their data is. You don't backup sensitive data to a goddamn cloud. Especially with someone else's encryption key. For everyone's edification, your iCloud backup is encrypted with two keys: yours, and Apple's. When Apple receives a warrant, they can decrypt your backup and provide the clear data to the feds. 100% confirmed. I have read this information myself in federal indictments.

    Make a physical backup yourself, using iTunes, and store that backup on an encrypted partition. Do not store any personal data on a cloud, for any reason, ever. This includes Dropbox, OneDrive, whatever. All of it is bad news.

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Mars For This Useful Post:

    com501 (Nov 19, 2019),motorola_otaku (Nov 10, 2019)

  14. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 05, 2012
    Posts
    337
    Thanks
    281
    Thanked 239 Times in 148 Posts
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by geekguy15 View Post
    We have a Codan P25 repeater between us.
    Do you happen to know if Sentry V supports DMR in low band? Any experience with DVOA audio quality? Nice to hear someone using Codan. Sounds like DMR with confirmation is best bet unfortunately.

  15. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 01, 2019
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    15
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PSEhub View Post
    Do you happen to know if Sentry V supports DMR in low band? Any experience with DVOA audio quality? Nice to hear someone using Codan. Sounds like DMR with confirmation is best bet unfortunately.
    Unfortunatly I do not know much about the repeater itself other then it being I believe a Cyclone. The owner doesnt like to share much info :/

  16. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 09, 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    916
    Thanks
    260
    Thanked 650 Times in 243 Posts
    Country: Australia

    Default

    The short, bursty nature of P25 PDUs means that alignment is even more critical than for voice. While the AGC loops etc can compensate for a radio that is a little bit off, these loops take time to track and stabilise. This works on a long voice transmission, but not so much on a single PDU. This means that services, such as TMS, that depend on Packet Data Units, are the first to fall over when the tuning / alignment is borked.

    Check the alignment. Especially on a radio with questionable history that's been depoted.

  17. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to MattSR For This Useful Post:

    com501 (Nov 19, 2019),geekguy15 (Nov 17, 2019),Mars (Nov 15, 2019),radioinstl (Nov 15, 2019),syntrx (Nov 15, 2019),triptolemus (Nov 16, 2019)