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Thread: APX8000 on Harris TRS

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    Default APX8000 on Harris TRS

    We are trying to add an APX8000 to our system, but it will not rekey. We can see the radio register with our KMF, but the radio shows out of range. The flash is 9QW068-811490-5-000000-000000

    We were on the phone with Motorola and he said that since the flash has QA01767 that it may be keeping the radio from registering properly. Can that feature be disabled in CPS or are forced to ask the vendor to remove that feature? We gave the vendor the features needed to be on our system and they added that and a few more. We have gone through the codeplug and can't find anything wrong.

    We have a ton of XTS2500 and a few SRX2200s and they work great. Neither of them have QA01767 enabled.

    We use OTAR for everything, so data is a must, but we are not using LLA that a Motorola radio can recognize.

    Is there anything we can do to get these radios working?


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    In the CPS go to codeplug and show feature set. See if it shows radio authentication enabled in the used codeplug.

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    Yes it does. We've been trying to figure out how to turn it off.

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    We can't enable LLA due to the XTS2500s that we have in use that would no longer work.

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    Perhaps I'm misreading, is the radio not registering/affiliating with the system? Or is the issue with OTAR?

    I have many APX8000s on a Harris P25 system with QA01767 without any issues communicating on the system.

    The most common, overlooked, item is the Validate NAC option needs to be unchecked in the Trunking System screen. (Expert View)

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    Thank you.

    The radio appears to not register at all. It tries to affiliate and then a red x appears over the RSSI bars and the radio displays Out Of Range. While troubleshooting, we logged into the KMF to see if it was attempting to register. It shows that the radio is offline, but if we request a rekey from the radio, the KMF shows that it goes online, it shows zeros for the rekey attempts and the radio still shows Out Of Range. Turning the radio off does not de-register the radio from the KMF, so it looks like the radio is still on. We spent a lot of time on the phone yesterday and the consensus from Motorola was QA01767 was the problem. We'll take a stab at the validate NAC, but our SRX2200s are programmed that way. I guess that sense the SXR2200s don't have QA01767 that the Vailidate NAC being checked doesn't apply?

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    Just tried it with Validate NAC unchecked and that did not work. Still shows a red x and Out Of Range.

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    I’ve got many apx’s on Harris systems throughout the country. If you want an additional pair of eyes to look at the apx codeplug, PM me.

    Seth

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    Due to policy, I can't send codeplugs or personalities. Using the same Trunked ID, OTAR ID and IP from one of our SRX2200s that works, the APX8000 will not work. The only difference I can find is with QA01767. Motorola is generating an iButton to remove that feature on a couple of these radios to see if that fixes our issue. I would assume that if we omitted the encryption portion that it would work fine, but all of our radios must be encrypted.

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    This sounds very similar to the first 8500's we put on our system.

    If you set CPS to expert view, Trunking Configuration > Trunking Wide > Advanced > ISW Window Adjustment. Do the values match between the SRX's and 8000's?

    EDIT: I know the MTN's say this only has an effect on t2 systems, but changing it helped us.

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    What's Intra WACN roaming set to? Every Harris system/Moto radio config I've seen has Intra-WACN roaming enabled.

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    Intra-WACN Roaming is unchecked on all of our working subscribers, but we tried both ways.

    The ISW did match at first and Motorola did have us change it as they are suposedly different between the SRX2200 and the APX8000, but that had no affect either. We are a Phase 2 system with multiple sites across several states.

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    I run a Harris SR10A.3 system and have a few thousand APX radios on it as well. Most of those APX radios have the LLA feature enabled (and use it on other systems) but we have LLA disabled for them at the system level.

    I would check in the UAS Voice End User to see if P25 Authentication is True or False and then enable the reverse state to see what happens. Have you loaded a LLAK to the APX?

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    No idea what the LLAK is, but we're checking the UAS now. Is the LLAK part of the provisional file? P25 Voice Auth is True. OS Voice Auth is False.
    Last edited by rescue161; 1 Week Ago at 03:09 PM. Reason: grammar

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    LLA shows Enable LLA Complete, but we aren't using LLA. Disable LLA is greyed out.

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    Okay, we found that the LLAK is in the provisional file. So if we change P25 Voice Auth to False, then the LLAK won't be generated? Going through the provisional, some radios have LLAK and some do not. Not sure why though.

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    Some updates.

    1) Two APX8000's came back from Motorola with the P25 Radio Auth feature (QA01767) removed and they are exhibiting the same error.
    2) We removed the radio completely out of the UAS and the KMF and added it back and made sure that P25 Voice Auth and OS P25 Auth were both unchecked. This did not help. It generated an LLAK in the Provisional file anyway, so we just checked the P25 Voice Auth box as all of our other radios have that enabled.

    Here's a recap of what is happening. We can watch the KMF and it shows the radio is offline when the radio is off (initially). We turn the radio on and the KMF still shows the radio is off. Red LED blinks on top of radio, but displays red X across RSSI bars. KMF still shows radio as off. Once a rekey is generated by the radio, "PLEASE WAIT" is displayed on the radio, red LED blinks, then we see the radio go online in the KMF. After a few seconds, the radio just displays "Out of Range" and the red X still shows across the RSSI bars. Radio still shows online in the KMF. If radio is turned off, the KMF still shows that it is online. Once it is in an online status in the KMF, no action by the radio with make it go offline as it thinks that it is out of range. It's like the radio is only able to send data to the KMF, but can't receive anything. Is there some other area where we can at least get this radio to receive data or anything from our system?

    It also makes it very difficult as we are not in the same location as the radio. We can only go by what the authorized programmer is telling us over the phone. They have sent us the codeplug and it has been verified several times by several different people, including Motorola, that it is correct. We are at a loss.

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    The Out of Range points towards a system registration / affiliation issue, not involving the KMF or Radio Auth. Motorola radios are designed that unless a valid reg/aff occurs, it's deaf to anything else from that system.

    Does your authorized programmer have the capability to watch the P25 control channel (DSD, Pro96com, OP25, etc) to watch the registration exchange?

    If you are working with Motorola engineering, have them send you the RSSICapture utility and send them a log of the radio failing. It should be fairly quick for them to tell you what the radio is seeing. (May not solve the issue, but it will point you in a direction.)

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    We will ask for that utility today. The guys at the other base are able to watch their SMT.

    I'm beginning to wonder if the radios are not aligned. We have gotten radios back from the depot that would not register. Once we put them on the bench, we found that the receivers were deaf and not aligned. Once we aligned them, they were able to log into the KMF to get the keys and were then able to register properly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rescue161 View Post
    We will ask for that utility today. The guys at the other base are able to watch their SMT.

    I'm beginning to wonder if the radios are not aligned. We have gotten radios back from the depot that would not register. Once we put them on the bench, we found that the receivers were deaf and not aligned. Once we aligned them, they were able to log into the KMF to get the keys and were then able to register properly.
    I know this doesn't help, but everytime we get something back from Motorola we automatically autotune it. We have seen the same issues with radios coming back from M.
    "Scanner hobbyists have conjured up the idea that a new, unscannable technology is not interoperable"

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    We were finally able to get the radio to log on and take a rekey, but it is still showing timeout when we try to ping from the SMT.

    The agency doing the programming does not have access to a service monitor and would have to send the radios to us. He just checked Motorola Prop Features and it finally logged on. It doesn't make sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwater View Post
    I know this doesn't help, but everytime we get something back from Motorola we automatically autotune it. We have seen the same issues with radios coming back from M.
    Yep. A radio that comes back from the depot always gets placed on one of our 3920bs before going back into the field. We have found radios that would only affiliate after being retuned and the ref oscillator being
    brought back within specs.

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    We always put them on a service monitor here, but these are brand new and I would hate to think that Motorola would sell 50 brand new APX8000s that were not aligned properly.

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    I seem to recall mention on this very board of exactly that happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rescue161 View Post
    We always put them on a service monitor here, but these are brand new and I would hate to think that Motorola would sell 50 brand new APX8000s that were not aligned properly.
    If I had a dollar for every out of box radio that desperately needed an alignment, well i wouldnt have to be paid to do alignments anymore

    Create a policy that every new radio or one that comes back from the depot get autotuned, or at minimum its ref osc aligned before heading out to its destination. It will save you countless headaches.

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