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Thread: Icom Linq Voting

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    Default Icom Linq Voting

    Anyone with experience with Icom Linq + Voting?

    It appears to be Icom's answer to IPSC with the notable difference being it will operate on a conventional system. The cost of their solution for a three site (three rcvrs, single transmitter) is less than a JPS SNV voter alone. It is based on the FR5000/6000 series repeater with an add-on IP module at each site to provide the connectivity. It has an optional IP console solution. Adding another device allows SIP phone, and analog console interfacing.
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    Super super popular product I can tell.
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    That is THE LAST manufacturer I would buy anything like that from.

    We are using the JPS SNV12 SVM-3/QMT-1 setup at work, and it is REALLY cool. There's a reason it's a bit expensive - IT WORKS.

    By the way I changed jobs back in early 2019, Bill. I'm on the customer side now. Much better environment.
    "Lets at least get some speed! Lets get to a hundred!" -J. Dewitte

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    Yeah. So I heard. I only have 18 months or so until retirement.

    On Icoms - a local railroad entertained a quote from our competitor, and were so enthralled with the price, they jumped on it. Barely forty grand for three sites installed. And they're driving 150 miles to put it in. It's all built and running, but it's got some bump and grind. Totally normal. I was interested in what this stuff is, and how well people like it. The cheap stuff has it's place and time.
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    I haven't used ICOM for voting but I have used it to link repeaters. It is surprisingly rock solid. The IP Connection is just a standard unicast connection. The linq connection only works in the IDAS Digital mode as far as I know. I have only configured ICOM for conventional operation. You can connect these repeaters to an Avtec Console via IP wire-line however the ICOM digital scrambling is not offered as part of the Avtec connectivity. ICOM also offers the FS10. The FS10 is a VERY BASIC "console-ish" connection but it NOT a console. I do believe (I can't be sure) that if you do use a repeater with voting, you can't use the receiver in the same box as the transmitter so you have to add a separate IP receiver at the repeater site. The reason is that if the receiver (in the same box as the repeater) receives a signal no matter how crappy, it will vote that site as if it is the best site. I would verify that with ICOM Systems Group in the event that that has been resolved. My experience with IDAS is 5+ years ago. I wouldn't use it for mission critical applications or public safety. My go to is Motorola GTR with GRV comparator for voting or simulcast, analog or digital. The Motorola G-Series does voting and simulcast very well. Stay clear of the MLC8000's, they are now obsolete.

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    Quote Originally Posted by d119 View Post
    ...We are using the JPS SNV12 SVM-3/QMT-1 setup at work...
    Have you noticed issues with traffic getting delayed, then sped up and garbled? I've heard it from the dispatcher and field units here in LA county. Several sites seem to have switched to the IP stuff.

    I'll try and make a recording.

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    Quote Originally Posted by megahertz View Post
    Stay clear of the MLC8000's, they are now obsolete.
    Fact? Or opinion? We had a vendor try and replace DIGITACS with MLC 8000's, and we put the kibosh on that for the time being since we'd lose integration with Centracom (and eventually Avtec) for the voting display and controls (which are critical).
    "Lets at least get some speed! Lets get to a hundred!" -J. Dewitte

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    Well, apparently now Linq will function in dig or ana mode which is something I've contended Trbo should do as well. As for in box repeat, because the voting is done by an external box, at least in the configuration I saw, the local rcvr to the transmitter is part of the full rx system.

    From what I've heard so far, unlike JPS equipment, it does no Rayleigh noise filtering. So, you get a good old fashioned voting radio system with IP transport even though all the audio got sampled and packetized. They don't do any massaging while it's in the bit zone. It also seems prone to inappropriate voting. That may be a factor of the vendor set up. As I said, there is some bump and grind that I would expect in a new system.

    Quote Originally Posted by megahertz View Post
    I haven't used ICOM for voting but I have used it to link repeaters. It is surprisingly rock solid. The IP Connection is just a standard unicast connection. The linq connection only works in the IDAS Digital mode as far as I know. I have only configured ICOM for conventional operation. You can connect these repeaters to an Avtec Console via IP wire-line however the ICOM digital scrambling is not offered as part of the Avtec connectivity. ICOM also offers the FS10. The FS10 is a VERY BASIC "console-ish" connection but it NOT a console. I do believe (I can't be sure) that if you do use a repeater with voting, you can't use the receiver in the same box as the transmitter so you have to add a separate IP receiver at the repeater site. The reason is that if the receiver (in the same box as the repeater) receives a signal no matter how crappy, it will vote that site as if it is the best site. I would verify that with ICOM Systems Group in the event that that has been resolved. My experience with IDAS is 5+ years ago. I wouldn't use it for mission critical applications or public safety. My go to is Motorola GTR with GRV comparator for voting or simulcast, analog or digital. The Motorola G-Series does voting and simulcast very well. Stay clear of the MLC8000's, they are now obsolete.
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    "if you do use a repeater with voting, you can't use the receiver in the same box as the transmitter so you have to add a separate IP receiver at the repeater site. The reason is that if the receiver (in the same box as the repeater) receives a signal no matter how crappy, it will vote that site as if it is the best site. "

    This sounds like a basic wireline priority vs in cabinet repeat problem that was solved by Motorola in the analog days of Micor SpectraTac with the C269 option. Basically local repeat needs to be secondary to wireline and the local repeat must be delayed long enough so that the voter does its thing. Surely, this is something fixable in software. Problem is , ICOM has a very thin engineering staff and in my experience changes must go through Japan HQ.
    Last edited by RFI-EMI-GUY; 1 Week Ago at 07:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by d119 View Post
    Fact? Or opinion? We had a vendor try and replace DIGITACS with MLC 8000's, and we put the kibosh on that for the time being since we'd lose integration with Centracom (and eventually Avtec) for the voting display and controls (which are critical).
    It is my opinion is that the MLC is obsolete. If all equipment is GTR/GPW then the GRV is WAY better for voting and simulcast. It is a direct IP connection from the repeater to the comparator. A transition from Analog to P25 can be done with no further hardware. The MLC has served well over many years. It is obvious to me that the MLC is way past it's prime unless you have to mix non-GTR receivers in the mix.

    If you are using Centracom and Digitacs it sounds like a serious system-wide upgrade would be best when the budget allows. I do highly recommend Avtec. The Voter display is a challenge and expensive however.

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    I'll have to look up the GRV. I have very limited experience with the GTR/MLC voting, and though it works fine, I am not impressed with the set up, the diagnostics, and the complete lack of statistics. The MLC is certainly lower cost than a SNV12, but I am not certain how to support the system if it runs into problems, or even how to do PM's on it.

    BTW - I didn't thank you enough for your response about Icom voting. That was some good insight. I am not terribly impressed with the performance I've heard so far over the air, but this particular system has it's own RF environment challenges that the new vendor has not appreciated or addressed yet. The price point makes it attractive for the right customer in the right situation though, and if it can exchange packets directly with an Avtec, all the better.

    Quote Originally Posted by megahertz View Post
    It is my opinion is that the MLC is obsolete. If all equipment is GTR/GPW then the GRV is WAY better for voting and simulcast. It is a direct IP connection from the repeater to the comparator. A transition from Analog to P25 can be done with no further hardware. The MLC has served well over many years. It is obvious to me that the MLC is way past it's prime unless you have to mix non-GTR receivers in the mix.

    If you are using Centracom and Digitacs it sounds like a serious system-wide upgrade would be best when the budget allows. I do highly recommend Avtec. The Voter display is a challenge and expensive however.
    Bow wow wow yippie yo yippie yay