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Thread: APX8000, Anything I should know before I buy?

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    Default APX8000, Anything I should know before I buy?

    Afternoon gents.
    I have been looking at combining my old AF XTS5000s into one APX8000, and wondering what I should know before getting one.
    At the moment there is only one question I have about the unit. Is the crypto board combined with another board or is separated?
    Thanks.


    Edit: I should also note that I plan on buying from a legit dealer, and not needing trunked operation at this time.


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    The encryption is included in all the APX radio's, just flash-a-algo in the future if needed. But.. may be easier now than in the future..AES would be what I would consider.

    I would also consider an APX8000XE personally, the large knobs and display are very nice, IMO.
    Radio Referenced...Those who think they know it all are very annoying to those of use who do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moetorola View Post
    I would also consider an APX8000XE personally, the large knobs and display are very nice, IMO.
    I also prefer my XE to the Non XE version. And, its much easier to order everything you want, may want, or can even imagine needing in the future, during the initial purpose. Adding things may be more difficult than you imagine when the time comes.

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    Your Motorola dealer should know this, but the default configuration as of early March is to ship them *without* ADP.
    If you choose to add any form of encryption in the future, you will have to send the radio to Motorola to enable the encryption.
    You should ask for your dealer to add Option Q667 (ADD: ADP ONLY NON CAP 25 COMPLIANT). The price for Q667 is $0.00.

    You probably won't ever use ADP, but this avoids having to send the radio to Motorola in the future when you decide to add encryption.
    Last edited by romanrobles; May 27, 2020 at 04:56 PM.

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    Just need to find a flashcode list and pick what you want. Everything is flash upgradeable but cheaper to get it the first time. Bluetooth being built in the APX line is a plus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moetorola View Post
    The encryption is included in all the APX radio's, just flash-a-algo in the future if needed.
    Sadly, that is not longer true (as of March 5, 2020 - no encryption is the default and the radio will have to sent to the depot for any encryption to be added in the future)

    That is why adding the zero dollar option Q667 needs to be specified when you buy the radio now. This prevents having to send it in to depot in the future when you add AES.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moetorola View Post
    The encryption is included in all the APX radio's, just flash-a-algo in the future if needed. But.. may be easier now than in the future..AES would be what I would consider.

    I would also consider an APX8000XE personally, the large knobs and display are very nice, IMO.
    Out of curiosity, what would be the price difference between an XE and non-XE?

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    You don't have post an answer publicly and can PM me instead, but from whom are you obtaining APX8000s and at what price?

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    I would also recommend going with the XE upfront. Most of our field users (the non FF ones) that started with the non-XE, ended up going with the XE when funds became available.
    The price difference really depends on your dealer. For us it was about $800.00/radio, your cost will vary.

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    I'm interested too in the price. How does one pull this off without the support of an agency making the purchase? Are we still not looking at $5K? I guess it will hold its value over the next several years, for easy liquidation if needed. This is my dream Swiss Army Knife radio. But I think realistically, the only way I am to get one on my own is in this order of preference... 1. The tooth fairy. 2. One falls off the back of a truck. 3. Frankenstein various parts. 4. I get a divorce.

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    $5K won't get us anything useful.

    We get a pretty good discount but it might not be what a large organization gets if they are purchasing radios by the thousands.

    An APX8000 (not XE) with 2 bands, AES256, P25 trunking, Phase 2 (TDMA), and 5 year warranty is distressingly close to $7K.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chance View Post
    I'm interested too in the price. How does one pull this off without the support of an agency making the purchase? Are we still not looking at $5K? I guess it will hold its value over the next several years, for easy liquidation if needed. This is my dream Swiss Army Knife radio. But I think realistically, the only way I am to get one on my own is in this order of preference... 1. The tooth fairy. 2. One falls off the back of a truck. 3. Frankenstein various parts. 4. I get a divorce.
    I, too, appreciate the joy of owning a quality piece of gear, and I felt bad about the tone of my previous reply, so I went through the exercise of pricing a Single Band, Analog Only APX8000 Model 3.5. (No P25, No WiFi, No FPP, standard battery, minimum warranty, etc.).

    This bare bones radio plus a programming cable, shipping, and CPS (from your own MOL account) could fit within your budget - just barely.
    Of course, for this small fortune you get an analog-only, single-band radio that will cost you an arm-and-a-leg to add another band or any features.

    That's still a bit "rich for my blood", so I don't think I'll be buying one out of my pocket for a while. (but....it's still a lot cheaper than a divorce - don't ask me how I know...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by romanrobles View Post
    Sadly, that is not longer true (as of March 5, 2020 - no encryption is the default and the radio will have to sent to the depot for any encryption to be added in the future)

    That is why adding the zero dollar option Q667 needs to be specified when you buy the radio now. This prevents having to send it in to depot in the future when you add AES.
    Interesting,, ordering Q667, no need to send to add AES if needed in the future. Thanks for the info, did not know that.
    Radio Referenced...Those who think they know it all are very annoying to those of use who do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moetorola View Post
    Interesting,, ordering Q667, no need to send to add AES if needed in the future. Thanks for the info, did not know that.
    This is a change that only went into effect March 5. I hope I've saved someone from some future grief.

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    I have been told by several sources that Motorola can no longer offer ADP as the only only algo in the radio. If you buy AES, you can get ADP for free, but Homeland Security is trying to keep people from using free ADP in lieu of using AES, so they put the stop to offering free ADP as a standalone.Are you saying you were able to ADP by itself?

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    Quote Originally Posted by radiownc View Post
    I have been told by several sources that Motorola can no longer offer ADP as the only only algo in the radio. If you buy AES, you can get ADP for free, but Homeland Security is trying to keep people from using free ADP in lieu of using AES, so they put the stop to offering free ADP as a standalone.Are you saying you were able to ADP by itself?
    That should only apply for radios purchased through grants which require radios to be delivered as P25 CAP compliant.

    This stuff typically is passed down through a game of telephone, so it might have to be escalated to someone who actually knows what the requirements are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by radiownc View Post
    I have been told by several sources that Motorola can no longer offer ADP as the only only algo in the radio. If you buy AES, you can get ADP for free, but Homeland Security is trying to keep people from using free ADP in lieu of using AES, so they put the stop to offering free ADP as a standalone.Are you saying you were able to ADP by itself?
    How many of your sources are Motorola Sales people? Confusion, misinformation, and doubt can really boost the bottom line, especially when you can get another ~$500 of taxpayer money per subscriber unit.

    It is true that adding Q667 will probably get you a call from your sales office to confirm that you understand that ADP is not P25 CAP Compliant, but nothing says you have to use any encryption at all.

    Obviously, to be compliant you must use approved algorithms (or not use any encryption at all).

    What Motorola did to pacify everyone was change the default configuration to NO ENCRYPTION.

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    Quote Originally Posted by radiownc View Post
    I have been told by several sources that Motorola can no longer offer ADP as the only only algo in the radio. If you buy AES, you can get ADP for free, but Homeland Security is trying to keep people from using free ADP in lieu of using AES, so they put the stop to offering free ADP as a standalone.Are you saying you were able to ADP by itself?
    Here's Motorola's official response to DHS on this:

    https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/fi..._13_2020_2.pdf

    In the interim and effective immediately, Motorola Solutions will place a hold on all orders from customers for a non-P25 CAP-compliant radio configuration (i.e., not meeting one of the three above described, compliant configurations) until a Motorola Solutions customer service representative confirms affirmatively with the customer that the order reflects the desired configuration. The customer service representative will contact the customer, explain the requirements for P25 CAP-compliant (and thus SAFECOM grant-eligible) radios, and then proceed with the order only upon affirmative validation from the customer.

    In addition, Motorola Solutions has conducted in-person training sessions during the week of January 6, 2020 with its sales force to impress upon them the importance to instruct each customer that if he or she requests a radio with only Motorola Solutions’ Advanced Digital Privacy ("ADP") feature, that customer must affirmatively acknowledge that the equipment will not be P25 CAP-compliant or SAFECOM grant-eligible without also ordering AES-256 bit encryption.
    If after providing this letter to the sales rep and they still can't figure out how to sell you ADP only, your next email should be to andres.lacambra@motorolasolutions.com asking him to straighten your rep out.

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