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Thread: FSB10717 - URGENT - DO NOT USE REAR USB CABLE (A-rev) FOR PROGRAMMING XPR5xxx

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    Default FSB10717 - URGENT - DO NOT USE REAR USB CABLE (A-rev) FOR PROGRAMMING XPR5xxx

    FSB10717

    XPR 5350™ and XPR™ 5550: The Customer Programming Software (CPS) may not read or program units, if using the PMKN4010A or PMKN4016A USB programming cables, when accessing radio through the rear accessory port.

    Cause: Differential on computer ground and radio ground causing excessive ground loop currents in the cable, which may damage the radio or PC.

    See attached PDF for all details.
    Attached Files Attached Files


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    Just FYI to all, I opened a case on MOL quoting the FSB, with the following comments:

    Hi,

    Regarding FSB10717, which pertains to the "A" revision rear USB programming cable for the XPR5xxx series radios:

    As this is a major safety issue (potential for fire hazard) and has a very real capacity to cause damage to customer equipment, it would be appreciated if a revision of this FSB could be made and released, which documents how the technically-oriented customer can modify their "A" revision cable to be "B" revision compatible.

    A similar (but not as serious) issue was identified with the PMKN4012A (APX and TRBO portable USB programming cable) and a "B" revision cable was released. The difference is a small jumper wire in the accessory connector, which is easy for any intermediate-level technician to install/correct. (TRBO 2.0 series portables were not compatible with the A-rev cable as there was a missing ground.)

    A set of modification instructions in an updated FSB, pertaining to the 5xxx series rear USB cable would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank you

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    What is the mod to fix this? I am NOT going to buy another set of cables, this is getting ridiculous.

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    If it's a ground loop, just pull the AC supply on your laptop and run it on batteries while reading/writing the radio! That way the laptop ground will float and not cause a potential difference with the vehicle ground. Either that or running a laptop/computer on an AC inverter in the vehicle should keep all the grounds the same, you'd think...

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    You'd think, but that won't work on the bench where everything is supposedly at the same potential. And which of my techs actually has a working laptop battery???

    And why am I awake at 1am shopping for a dog swimming pool on Amazon when I should be in bed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by com501 View Post
    What is the mod to fix this? I am NOT going to buy another set of cables, this is getting ridiculous.
    Let's coordinate, man. I've got the PMKN4016B.

    I'll post a trace out of the cable with pictures; you do the same for you A-rev cable. Deal?

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    That should be easy, the cable is basically 4 wires a direct USB connection. I'm thinking we'll discover they moved the ground around. The factory cable is at the office, my home brew copy is here at home. I'll artist up both., they are identical.

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    I wonder is this will affect the Vertex cable, since the ONLY way to program the Vertex mobile is from the rear, and it uses the Motorola cable. (you order it from Vertex and they send you the Motorola repeater cable!)

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    OK. This is the PMKN4016B pinout. The other wires are for the DB-25 plug, which is for alignment and other crap. USB is the programming interface.

    Two quick notes:

    - On USB plug, black goes to pin 4 and the USB shield/ground;
    - On USB plug, white does NOT connect to shield, I just had to put the color up there as there's poor contrast in the photo. It connects to #2.
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    Quote Originally Posted by com501 View Post
    I wonder is this will affect the Vertex cable, since the ONLY way to program the Vertex mobile is from the rear, and it uses the Motorola cable. (you order it from Vertex and they send you the Motorola repeater cable!)
    There is a front programming cable for the VXD Series

    AAH84X001 - CT-154 VXD Mobile Front Programming Cable

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    Hi Mars - Do you have a reference for the mod. for the the PMKN4012A (APX and TRBO portable USB programming cable)? I can't find anything on MOL about that.

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    Abmain:

    I don't have the document either, but here's a pic of what you need to do to the "A" rev cable, to make it "B" rev. (Compatible with APX + TRBO) Tested and working by myself.

    Sorry for picture quality; they're not mine.
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    For the record on my PMKN4010A the four USB connector contact wires (black, white, green, red) are terminated as per the PMKN4016B picture from Mars at the radio header end of the cable BUT the outside shell of the USB plug (the shield) is NOT connected to any pin on the header.

    @Mars, thank you for the PMKN4012A to B modification.
    Last edited by Astro Spectra; Mar 18, 2013 at 10:08 PM.
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    This is EXACTLY how my PMKN4010A is terminated, as well as my A version of the alignment cable. I have been building replacement 10 foot programming cables from standard USB cables and spare connectors instead of buying them.

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    OK so with the -B pic plus two -A confirmations it should be safe to say the mod for the PMKN4010/4016-A cable to a -B is the connection of the USB screen to the black wire, subject to any response from Moto that Mars receives.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astro Spectra View Post
    OK so with the -B pic plus two -A confirmations it should be safe to say the mod for the PMKN4010/4016-A cable to a -B is the connection of the USB screen to the black wire, subject to any response from Moto that Mars receives.
    I don't think I'll get any further confirmation/info from Moto. A really nice (I mean it) guy called from TRBO product support yesterday, and agreed this is a concerning issue. But Moto's official position is they do NOT support any cable mods, as this could damage customer equipment. (Ironic, since they already admit in the FSB their own cable is damaging; hah hah) I also emailed the employee a link to this thread, and he is passing it around the plant. If that employee is reading (he knows who he is), I truly appreciate your concern.

    I would say the ground issue with the USB plug is likely the problem which is identified in the FSB.

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    Here's Motorola's own diagram from the repeater service manual. Note they appear to have left the ground (pin 4) out on the USB connector.

    In the PMKN4016B cable, pin 4 of USB is connected to pin 4 of the rear accessory connector, and the USB shield is also connected to pins 4/4.

    Not to be overly critical, but one really has to wonder why whomever designed this cable did not opt to have common grounds? Why leave a floating ground? Maybe I'm missing a good reason for it, but apparently not -- as it's now been corrected.

    I'm wondering if we should also be adding a jumper from pin 16 and 4, if it's not already bridged in the radio? (common ground) I know some radios have a "ground" and a "digital ground".
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    Thanks for the photos Mars. I'll give the mod a try with my 'A' cable.

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    If the cable truly is dangerous and is a fire hazard the should replace any affected cable free of charge period.

    Jason

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMR061 View Post
    If the cable truly is dangerous and is a fire hazard the should replace any affected cable free of charge period.

    Jason
    To be fair to Moto, the employee who contacted me did hint he had sent something up the chain about this exact issue. He felt it was important. I am not speaking for him, just relaying what I perceived after a brief chat.

    I think it is in Moto's best interest to replace that POS cable for any customer who calls in and quotes the FSB, within a 1 year period. Bill the costs associated with the replacement to the dumbass engineer who left a floating ground in the design.

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    Just a quick note: I have modified my content in post #9, so the pin numbers reflect what's in the diagram I posted from Motorola. I had them backwards before, as I was using my own scheme.

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    hello all,
    thanks for mods about the PMKN4012A to B, works well with new series
    the cable is used for DP3600, DP3601, DP4800, DP4801

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    I picked up an aftermarket cable (yea I know...) and surprise...it doesn't work on my 7550. The strange thing is it worked fine with the 6550. What the heck is the difference?

    I tried checking the ground and it's already installed, or appears to be.

    Another interesting tidbit is the PC side houses a board with what appears to be an Atmel 328P type package with the part number ground off. I would like to read that bastard and see what they got going on in there. That might be a project for later.
    Last edited by PRC148; May 03, 2014 at 03:50 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PRC148 View Post
    I picked up an aftermarket cable (yea I know...) and surprise...it doesn't work on my 7550. The strange thing is it worked fine with the 6550. What the heck is the difference?

    I tried checking the ground and it's already installed, or appears to be.

    Another interesting tidbit is the PC side houses a board with what appears to be an Atmel 328P type package with the part number ground off. I would like to read that bastard and see what they got going on in there. That might be a project for later.
    Sigh.... what was that old saying? You get what you pay for??? I think it all depends on what one-wire they cloned into their counterfeit atmel cheater. You can buy OEM cables from many places online......
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    That's what I was thinking, the data must be different. How does that work? Does the radio talk to the chip, tell it what it is, then it turns around and tells the PC what driver to load? I would think that's how it must work otherwise it would just try to load a driver for a 6550 every time right?

    The ad said it was supposed to work for the 7350 which is just a model 1 of the XPR7550 I think.