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Thread: quantar simm to dip chips?

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    Default quantar simm to dip chips?

    As the quantar firmware simm is pretty rare and hard to get if you need one, I was wondering if anybody has attemped to take the firmware from the 4 chips on the simm, copy it to 4 dip chips and install on the scm directly.

    Randy


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    Hey Randy,

    This has already been documented somewhere. It's not possible due to a limitation in the hardware addressing scheme or something along those lines. Although there was mention of a mod (in theory, installing jumpers or something?) somewhere. I believe it was posted on the board. I'll see if I can find the post later this morning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fail999 View Post
    As the quantar firmware simm is pretty rare and hard to get if you need one, I was wondering if anybody has attemped to take the firmware from the 4 chips on the simm, copy it to 4 dip chips and install on the scm directly.

    Randy
    I've looked into this. Issues:
    1. The four sockets on the main board do not have the extra addressing line in place for the size of new flash chip. The new chips are twice the density of the old chips and the new firmware itself won't fit into the addressing of the old chip size.
    2. The four sockets have a solid structure to them and in order to cut the jumper (on the top side of the board) that prevents the higher address lines from being connected, you have to hollow out the socket around those pins. Then run the address line that is missing. This isn't a simple task. While I made a jig to hold these board, you will have to mill out the socket in order to get at the pins for re addressing.
    3. The new firmware is looking for a 5 bit parallel code that comes off the 80 pin simm. This tells the firmware which simm is installed. Work around is to hardwire this code on the port.

    While I have hollowed out wireline card sockets, I haven't done an actual SCM board. However, I had the same idea you had there until I looked into it. Best route is to buy another SCM card that has the simm in it. Seems to me that someone on here wants to layout a simm board, so firmware simms could be made up. Neat idea.
    MJ.

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    Yep, I noticed that the chips on the simm have twice the capacity, and thought that might be an issue. Just wondering, as it would have been a neat workaround.

    Thanks guys.

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    Its not like Quantar firmware is being released constantly, program them up and straiten the address pin, solder jumper wire, done. Worst case is new firmware comes out and you have to buy new dips instead of reprogramming.
    "Don't worry about what I am, cause I'm a state agent so what you need to do is make sure your doing the right thing **** boy" -J. Dewitte

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    I'm also starting down this road now to update a 4094C from R16 to R20. What I've come up with is the SIMM schematic from the Quantar service manual, TTN4094C/TRN7900C/CLN6686C sheet 5 of 10.

    2013-04-06 16.07.42.jpg

    Now my idea is to just get a regular 80-pin flash SIMM that is blank or comes with the chips already on-board.

    Is this really that far-fetched of an idea? In other words, all we're really doing is adding the additional flash memory to the board, perhaps pre-load the firmware and set those resistors if needed (where do they go?).

    Looks like an 8M x 32 would do the trick, but these lines would need to be added:
    Pin 3 VPP1
    Pin 71 VPP2
    Pin 23 /CE1
    Pin 22 /CE2
    Pin 21 /CE3
    Pin 7 /Reset

    Comments?
    Last edited by motoham88; Apr 06, 2013 at 11:26 PM.

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    motoham88, which page in which manual did you find that schematic?

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    Going from memory:

    * The density of the chips is important, because WE0-3 and CE0-3 are going to individual chips.
    * In most 80-pin flash designs Ive seen, VPP is connected to 12v, IIRC it means "programming" and thats what it stands for on PCMCIA.

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    @kayfox,
    See the Quantar Service manual (68P81088E90-E), Board TTN4094C/TRN7900C/CLN6686C, sheet 5 of 10. I just used my phone to snap a quick picture to show it's really just memory that would be used in place of the four smaller EPROMs. The trick would be to load the firmware before installing so the SCM boots properly.

    I seen a lot of references to Cisco equipment using these denser SIMM's, so if my idea works plus a few mods, it might be the answer as they are readily available.

    Are those resistors actually the WE0-3 and CE0-3 lines that are jumpered? Addressing or something else?

    You're right VPP would have to be dealt with, otherwise you would have to pull this everytime to flash it (but as stated above we're at the end of firmware releases, so does that matter)?



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    Quote Originally Posted by kayfox View Post
    motoham88, which page in which manual did you find that schematic?
    from the Quantar service manual, TTN4094C/TRN7900C/CLN6686C sheet 5 of 10

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    Looking over the schematic... VPP is +12v

    The memory on the SIMM is probably arranged the same as in the sockets, 512Kx32 (2MB).

    I would hazard a guess that if you found a flash simm with 4x 29F040 (2MB) it would probably work right off the bat.

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    Someone would have to ohm out SIMM Pads 73-79 and see what is connected, according to this "coding". Good call on PD1-7 being the "parallel port". I don't own a Quantar (yet) but am willing to pursue this further as it would help a lot of people potentially.

    Found this on another post by AstroSpectra (https://www.p25.ca/threads/1896-What...4185#post14185): "The IR firmware comes on a 4 Meg Flash SIMM (eight 29F040) and the SCB is a jumpered version of the '6961 called the '6960. The only difference is a unique zero ohm 'punch out' jumper block. This jumper block and zero ohm resistors on the SIMM are read into a parallel port at boot." (I added the underline for emphasis).

    So we would just need to jumper the parallel port according to what the OEM SIMM would have...
    Last edited by motoham88; Apr 07, 2013 at 03:42 PM.

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    In taking a closer look at the 27C020 and 27C040 EPROM chips, only Pin 31 is different. On the stock '020 chip it's a /PGM line and on the '040 chip it's actually A18 which is what we need for the increased capacity - everything else is the same 32-pin package.

    So if the sockets can be modified to remove the jumper from 32 (Vcc) to 31 and run A18 - either by socket hollow-out mods, bending the pin out or another method - would this in theory work using OTP chips (non-SIMM) burned with the latest firmware .BIN files? I don't see the need to have flash capability of the end goal is 20.14.048 anyway.

    I'm determined to get this to work, and just missed a CLN6961 board yesterday on eBay. I'd be willing to pick up a 4049 board for around $100 and try this. I have a Willem programmer and some SMT skills from when I was at Moto (miss those days actually).

    Is the discussion about a bootloader just pertaining to the SIMM?