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Thread: My county is upgrading a SN 3600 Type II system.... Vendor selection underway..question

  1. #1
    apco25guy No Longer Registered

    Default My county is upgrading a SN 3600 Type II system.... Vendor selection underway..question

    My county is currently in vendor selection to upgrade our 800 trunk to a Phase II (initially P25 Phase 1 upgrade, then converting to P25 Phase II in a second wave) P25 trunking solution... We are currently a SmartNet Type II system now and have xts/xtl subscriber units.

    At least two vendors are Motorola and Harris and the selection committee is doing their thing. We will see soon what is chosen.......

    I don't know the exact details of the bid/rfp but I'm wondering if Harris is selected, seeing as the current network infrastructure is Motorola with Motorola subscriber units, what capabilities of the subscriber units will not be available using a Harris infrastructure?

    Again, i'm not part of the procurement process but as a concerned citizen and someone who might be involved in the project, I would like to have an idea going forward about potential issues.


    Also, I'm sure there have to be sys admins or radio managers that read/participate on here, is there a way to create a sys mgr/admin forum to share advice/info among each other or maybe one exists?

    Just curious.

    Thanks in advance.

    Jonathan


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    Do a Public Record request for the bid/rfp or you might still be able to find it on-line on the agency's purchasing website.

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    There are definitely issues between using different brands of infrastructure & subscriber units...not sure of exactly what technical limitations there are between brands. It really depends on how they write the bid and how careful they are about checking out all the details. I know on a recent trunked P25 system here, they made the winning infrastructure vendor demonstrate cross compatibility with other brand subscriber units. Ultimately, it was the vendor who provided a system that was as compliant as could be with plain old P25.

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    Locally here in Toronto, the Fire Service was playing around with some EFJ subscriber units using Motorola site equipment on a Phase I P25 system and from what I've heard, they're having a hell of a time getting it to work properly. Seems like EFJ won't provide a system key for a system not purchased through them. So much for interop.

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    I don't know all that much about interop but I think that's why the interop channels are conventional analog and not digital trunked. Once you introduce a trunked system into 'interop', all bets are off. Plus that, many times when you need interop, the trunked system will probably be damaged in some way. That's when you break out ye olde conventional analog repeaters. Pretty much every radio has the ability to go analog but they definitely have a hard time crossing digital platforms.

    Quote Originally Posted by exkalibur View Post
    Locally here in Toronto, the Fire Service was playing around with some EFJ subscriber units using Motorola site equipment on a Phase I P25 system and from what I've heard, they're having a hell of a time getting it to work properly. Seems like EFJ won't provide a system key for a system not purchased through them. So much for interop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by exkalibur View Post
    Locally here in Toronto, the Fire Service was playing around with some EFJ subscriber units using Motorola site equipment on a Phase I P25 system and from what I've heard, they're having a hell of a time getting it to work properly. Seems like EFJ won't provide a system key for a system not purchased through them. So much for interop.
    EFJ won't touch a system unless they have it IN WRITING, they are ALLOWED access to the system. The system key is then provided by the owner of the system.

    In instances where new subscriber equipment is being tested, such as the Viking line, they need permission IN WRITING, and then EFJ must generate their own key to access the system as the welfare Motorola system key -- which is heavily compromised, is not supported by EFJ's subscriber equipment. EFJ uses their own system keys which are very secure. The EFJ skeygen for their high-tier equipment has not leaked.

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    Mars is correct. Efj will make a system key as long as it is requested by the system owner. This is to ensure that system security is not compromised. To be fair Motorola will not give out system keys to any other entity but the registered system owner as well.

    As for compatibility, only Motorola and EFJohnson subs can operate on 3600 trunking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mizzotch View Post
    I don't know all that much about interop but I think that's why the interop channels are conventional analog and not digital trunked. Once you introduce a trunked system into 'interop', all bets are off. Plus that, many times when you need interop, the trunked system will probably be damaged in some way. That's when you break out ye olde conventional analog repeaters. Pretty much every radio has the ability to go analog but they definitely have a hard time crossing digital platforms.
    Properly managed you can have full interoperability in a trunking environment and this can happen on a sunny day chasing bad guys down the highway. It does not have a be a storm related event, that can also wipe a conventional system off the map, to have interoperability.

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    The city of Richardson, TX bought their Smartnet replacement from Cassidian, note that the subscriber units are APX radios, and they were able to underbid Motorola for infrastructure by several million dollars, and provide a higher tier subscriber unit (the Motorola RFP response called for XTS2500/XTL radios not APX).

    http://urgentcomm.com/project25-brie...ian-p25-system

    So if done PROPERLY by a qualified vendor who's network is truly CAI compliant, it CAN be done: a mix and match. There are other P25 networks in Texas that have multi-vendor subscriber radios in use from Motorola, Harris, EFJ, Kenwood and Relm- maybe someone from these areas can chime in and share their experiences.

    It would benefit us all from learning how a multi-vendor P25 network behaves with different brands of FNE and subscriber units online.

  10. #10
    apco25guy No Longer Registered

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTS2000DES View Post
    It would benefit us all from learning how a multi-vendor P25 network behaves with different brands of FNE and subscriber units online.
    I guess this is the real core of my question. I'm just curious what features we loose or are unable to benefit from or utilize when the other vendor's infrastructure is in place. There has to be some loss or mis-match of capabilities with different suppliers right?

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    Well if you're currently on a SMARTNET system and going to P25 trunking, you don't lose ANY features. MAJOR operational differences between SMARTNET and P25 trunking.

    ...Or did you mean to say SmartZone?