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Thread: XTS5000 Firmware 9.0 - FPP + Trunking

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    Default XTS5000 Firmware 9.0 - FPP + Trunking

    Hi Guys,

    I have an XTS5000 with firmware 9, and it also has Q52 and trunking in the codeplug. I have been told not to update the firmware above this version, since my current flashcode (5A9008-101E87-8) will cause the radio to become buggy.

    The problem is, I feel like I'm missing out on bug fixes and new functionality as a result. Can anyone give me a run down of specifically what the problem is with this flashcode and Firmware greater than version 9, and how to fix it? I'd like to upgrade the radio and enjoy some nice fresh firmware!

    Cheers,
    Matt




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    As long as you have a later DSP (like R16 or newer) with the R9 HOST firmware you aren't missing much. They kept updating R09 HOST alongside the regular R14 and later HOST code up til R16, I believe, (see the version matrices for more info there) but all the major features and bugfixes that went into the regular code also were back-ported to the R09 HOST's for the older 4 meg XTS2500's and AS+ radios. This happened up until they actually ran out of memory for stuff in the 4 Meg controllers, so now R09 is frozen at whatever version it wound up at (R09.61.00) or something like that.

    In order to either go higher than R9 HOST or R9 CPS, neither will like a Q52 only radio. It will try to add Q53, which requires a major restructuring of the codeplug. It FORCES you to use 1-personality-per-channel for the first 15 zones, and it will pre-define 240 modes and personalities, even if you have 1 channel in the radio, it will now instantly have 240. Here's the worst part - it will only allow ONE MDC, ONE QUICK-CALL, ONE ASTRO, and ONE DTMF system for all those 240 modes. That's just stupid. It's not like you'd ever need a different MDC ID or a different APCO ID for your channels, and only the first 240 channels are FPP'able.

    You can use other MDC or ASTRO systems on modes higher than 240, but you can't FPP them. As I said, these are stupid, arbitrary limitations to keep people from screwing up their radio configurations in the field by FPP'ing them. Channels that share a personality would retain FPP changes made to one and apply them to both, I believe that was why they thought they had to make Q53 in the first place.

    On the downside, the only things I think you are missing out on are the ability to have different sounding beeps for SCAN ON vs. SCAN OFF (nice), and other very minor features like ZN UP/ZN DN and CHAN UP/CHAN DN buttons on portables. Pretty minor stuff, considering all you lose by going to Q52/Q53, not to mention having to re-write your entire codeplug...

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    My xts5000 is 5A9008-101F87-F firmware is R16.00.01 and it work great

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    Quote Originally Posted by xts2500 View Post
    My xts5000 is 5A9008-101F87-F firmware is R16.00.01 and it work great
    Your radio is a Q52/Q53 radio which has the above mentioned different FPP

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    I still keep a version 9 Q52-only radio for the reasons you mentioned above. I absolutely HATE the predefined 15 zone of 16 channels (240 channel) rule.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avery Johannssenn View Post
    I still keep a version 9 Q52-only radio for the reasons you mentioned above. I absolutely HATE the predefined 15 zone of 16 channels (240 channel) rule.
    Yea those reasons get very tiresome after a while...

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    So...

    With Host above 9, I would be required to have 15 zones of 16 channels, and those would presumably be FPP?

    So what about the rest of the channels. If my radio does 512 modes, can I assign the remaining ones any way I want, with/without FPP, Trunking, etc? The first bunch of zones in my radio are already conventional, so that doesn't sound like a huge pain (yet).

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    If you have a codeplug version above 9 you cannot have fpp and trunking in the radio and still have them work. You lose both. If you have q52 and q53 fpp then yes you can use the channels above 240 to be whatever you want them to be.

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    Ah, gotcha. So I can have whatever Host/DSP I want, as long as the codeplug version is 9, I'm good?

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    No, you can't use a HOST greater than the latest R9. It has "issues" if you try to upgrade it without upgrading the codeplug correspondingly, and 10 and later have problems with Q52-only FPP. The final R9 was about DSP 16.00.01 or .02 so it's pretty new as far as things go. The only newer versions (17) have been problematic, so as I said before you're not missing much with the latest R9. Plus, with R9 HOST/CPS you get FPP for all your 768? 1000? 2000? channels!

    The lack of FPP on channels greater than 240, and the lack of multiple MDC/ASTRO/QC/DTMF systems on the first 240 modes are the primary problems.

    The trunking issue is another one, but I am not entirely convinced you can't have them together - I have seen UHF radios with FPP and trunking (OBT) together (I have one), but I'm not sure if they were Q53 or over HOST 9 (mine isn't) now that you mention it.
    Last edited by Alpha; May 28, 2012 at 12:52 PM.

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    I had an R9 XTS5000 800mhz with Q52 and H38. They played nice with each other.

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    Oh okay I got'cha. So in other words, the only disadvantages of using the latest Host/DSP is that you are forced to have the first 15/16 conventional and FPP, with one MDC/whatever system - and unable to FPP anything other than those channels. Arguably in my application that wouldn't really be an issue, but I can see how it would for some.

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    is it possible to flash zap down, ie 17 to 9 ?

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    You can revert the HOST and DSP code to an earlier rev like R9, but you will have to re-write your codeplug entirely with old R9 CPS. The later R17 codeplug will almost certainly NOT work right with R9 HOST, and you more than likely will NOT be able to roll back a codeplug that runs with HOST/CPS 11 or later, due to major structural changes in the codeplug format.

    A simple CP with only a few conventional channels MIGHT work, but if it's not dead simple, it probably won't convert, and if your CP is simple enough to survive a rollback, it's probably small enough that entirely re-writing it won't be that much harder and you'll be guaranteed a non-buggy CP that way. Remember, you should be able to drag-and-drop your R17 CPS data onto the earlier R9 CPS, and that will make re-writing the CP a bit easier.

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    i tried a few times with the forced entry method... no work..

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    I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to. Please be more specific, and maybe I can answer your question.
    Last edited by Alpha; May 29, 2012 at 07:32 PM.

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    I think he's saying he forced his radio into Flashzap mode and tried to downgrade it using regular CPS.
    Cyrus

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    OK, that's no problem, if you're trying to do that. You'd probably have to use CPS R9 to do it and you'd have to use the cpfix utility to rollback the CP to R9 as well. Then you can use an iButton to do the upgrade the proper way, I'm not sure if the dirty method will work here. What error did you get? Again, please be more specific...

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    I'd be interested in seeing a later R9 series cvn if anyone has it stashed. Might be delightful to change up this FPP nonsense.

    Edit: Am I understanding correctly? If an 8M unit is pushed a R16 cvn, it will end up with R16 Host and R16 DSP, but if the same cvn is pushed to a 4M unit, it will be R09 Host and R16 DSP? Is it even possible to get an R09 Host and a later (R16 or somesuch) DSP on an 8M? Or should I be looking at using the older R09 cvn?

    Also, MattSR: love the stuff you and Balint have done with the RTLSDR and OP25 business, thanks for putting it out there!
    Last edited by safe; Jun 08, 2012 at 07:12 PM.

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    safe - yes, as far as 2500's and AS+'s go, the AN or the BN on the model number determines what HOST revision it uses, R9 or R16 (or whatever) but the DSP code is almost always the same. Inexplicably, for the last R16 release, they made the DSP revisions differ very slightly but only by a subversion number. This seems odd, none of the other releases had a different DSP code for the 4M vs. 8M radios, just different HOST code(s).

    Anyway the DSP partition size in memory is fixed regardless of the 4M/8M total memory limit, it's rather smallish by comparison, and doesn't fill up from rampant creeping feature-itis like the HOST memory space does.

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    I understand the 4M/8M memory limits, but to the OP question. If I have an XTS5000 vers 9 radio (same as MattSR) that has 8M of memory, is it possible to update just the DSP portion of the firmware?

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    The way I understand it, the latest "XTS5000_09_xx_xx.cvn" file would include both the latest version of HOST R09 and DSP R16? (Edit: Incorrect, see below)

    We just have to hope someone will be kind enough to post a copy here?
    Last edited by Bigfella237; Jun 09, 2012 at 12:17 PM. Reason: see text
    Andrew

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella237 View Post
    The way I understand it, the latest "XTS5000_09_xx_xx.cvn" file would include both the latest version of HOST R09 and DSP R16?

    We just have to hope someone will be kind enough to post a copy here?
    No because all 5k's are 8meg radios. The 2500 cvn's have both, thats why they are twice the size of the 5k cvn's.

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    From the word doc included with the R16.00.01 firmware:

    "For this release, the radios will be upgraded to version R16.00.01 for the host, R16.00.01 for the DSP, and R05.07.15 for the UCM (if applicable)

    EXCEPT for SSE 5000 radios, ASTRO Spectra Plus radios and XTS 2500, XTS 1500, MT 1500 and PR 1500 radios which model numbers end with ‘AN’. These radios will be upgraded to version R09.00.41 for the host, R16.00.01 for the DSP, and R05.07.15 for the UCM (if applicable).

    ASTRO Spectra Plus radios which model numbers end with ‘BN’ will be upgraded to version R09.20.41 for the host, R16.00.01 for the DSP, and R05.07.15 for the UCM .

    Please note going forward, any R09.xx.yy version will only contain defect fixes, no new radio functionality will be added in these releases
    "

    Obviously this doesn't help with R09 for the XTS5000 radios, I think there may be some confusion there? The latest version of R09 firmware I have seen for the XTS5000 is R09.00.05 (DVN41095).

    I can't speak for any lab/depot software but you cannot normally upgrade the DSP separately to the HOST? There is an option to uncheck the UCM upgrade but that is the only choice offered AFAIK?
    Last edited by Bigfella237; Jun 09, 2012 at 12:13 PM. Reason: text color change
    Andrew

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    Quote Originally Posted by khw View Post
    I understand the 4M/8M memory limits, but to the OP question. If I have an XTS5000 vers 9 radio (same as MattSR) that has 8M of memory, is it possible to update just the DSP portion of the firmware?
    Yes but you would have to use special Motorola tools to write just the dsp or convince your radio it's a 4meg XTS2500 so it receives the upgraded dsp and then change it back to an XTS5K.
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