Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Chip programing hardware for Astro EPROMs

  1. #1
    immelmen No Longer Registered

    Default Chip programing hardware for Astro EPROMs

    I am looking to put my SMD rework station and the .bin files that were graciously provided on this site to use and revamp some old radios laying around. Can anyone with experience recommend a chip programer/software and adapter that is known to work with the TSOP-32, 40, 48 and 28 chips that it looks like need to be pulled and worked with. I am not looking to break the bank on this as it would be a hobby venture, not for profit...so if the cheaper Willem/knockoff stuff will work that would be preferable to the $$$ Phyton wants.

    Also, I did a quick search for part numbers for a few of the TSOP chips used in astro gear. I found most are NLA or the same part number now represents an 8 meg chip in the same package rather than the old 1m. Is there a source out there for blank chips to burn and transplant or must one recycle the originals?


  2. #2
    rad2085 No Longer Registered

    Default

    I was trying to find out wether it is possible to extract .bin files from ASTRO and ASTRO25 without removing the IC's. Some people say it can be done. But I have not been able to find any clear guidance or available software.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 12, 2011
    Location
    Avalon
    Posts
    1,198
    Thanks
    302
    Thanked 333 Times in 165 Posts
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rad2085 View Post
    I was trying to find out whether it is possible to extract .bin files from ASTRO and ASTRO25 without removing the IC's. Some people say it can be done. But I have not been able to find any clear guidance or available software.
    And you probably won't. You can always ananlyze the protocol cps uses and write your own software.

  4. #4
    immelmen No Longer Registered

    Default

    Im not looking to reinvent the wheel here...I have no problem pulling the chips off the boards, it takes all of three minutes....I just want to know what hardware i need to buy that is known to support the chips in question. Obviously people here have done it when the bin files are all here. Also, was looking for a source for blank chips so I dont have to recycle the originals...that way if I botch one up, I can keep the original in its know good config, and drop it back on the board.

    Thanks for anyone who can help.

  5. #5
    motorolanovice No Longer Registered

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by immelmen View Post
    Im not looking to reinvent the wheel here...I have no problem pulling the chips off the boards, it takes all of three minutes....I just want to know what hardware i need to buy that is known to support the chips in question. Obviously people here have done it when the bin files are all here. Also, was looking for a source for blank chips so I dont have to recycle the originals...that way if I botch one up, I can keep the original in its know good config, and drop it back on the board.

    Thanks for anyone who can help.
    You understand your asking people How they do what they do, reprogramming a chip isnt the easiest thing to do it takes $1000's of dollars worth of equipment and a good understanding of how stuff works. If you want to try and learn I say go for it but I dont think anyone here will tell you there secrets.

    I was in the same position ask MARS for help he does the job for you and only charges for his time, It's a lot cheaper than buying a full setup for a hand full of chips.

    Chips are easy to find just ebay/google the part number I did

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 11, 2011
    Location
    /dev/null
    Posts
    234
    Thanks
    10
    Thanked 156 Times in 59 Posts
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by motorolanovice View Post
    You understand your asking people How they do what they do, reprogramming a chip isnt the easiest thing to do it takes $1000's of dollars worth of equipment and a good understanding of how stuff works. If you want to try and learn I say go for it but I dont think anyone here will tell you there secrets.

    I was in the same position ask MARS for help he does the job for you and only charges for his time, It's a lot cheaper than buying a full setup for a hand full of chips.

    Chips are easy to find just ebay/google the part number I did
    You do realize the hard part is removing the chip without damaging it and resoldering it, don't you? Chip programmers are $20 on eBay as are the appropriate TSOP adapters. Writing a binary image to a flash rom is quite trivial and can be done with a minimum investment. It certainly does not cost thousands of dollars.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 21, 2011
    Posts
    4,051
    Thanks
    2,964
    Thanked 5,774 Times in 1,707 Posts
    Country: Canada

    Default

    Good kit isn't $20. You need the right tools for the job. You get what you pay for. I've purchased the $2 chip adapters out of curiosity, and I've had nothing but problems.

    Some of the adapters I purchased are from Phyton. I even had one custom-built for about $400~ 4 years ago. Did I overpay? Yeah. But the support I received with it and the quality of the programmer and software is way beyond some of the free/cheap stuff that's out there.

    Anyway Pezking is correct in referencing the skills. A newb (no insult intended to ANYONE) would be hard-pressed to pull off the board-work without damaging the flash ROM, surrounding parts, the board, the traces and in some instances, even the programming equipment.

    In my beginning days, I pulled off some serious butcher jobs. I learned a lot from my mistakes -- including the costs and risks associated with those screwups. You can soldier on, or let someone else deal with it. I like to give members of the forum BOTH options. The files and theory are here, but so are my services.

    When you fly on a plane, do you usually sit in the cockpit? The flight-plan is there. But unless you have experience, you might want to practice on a simulator, first

    My prices aren't cheap, but neither are my tools or the time I invested in learning my trade.

    P.S. The title of this thread is driving me nuts. There are no EPROMs in ASTRO radios. There is an EEPROM, which is where the codeplug data resides, but definitely no EPROMs. An EPROM is an oldschool, UV-erasable PROM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 13, 2012
    Posts
    190
    Thanks
    23
    Thanked 59 Times in 20 Posts

    Default

    removing and installing is not difficult - it can be done with some low temp solder and a normal soldering station.
    hard part i had was getting the correct adapters and programmer,
    my programmer, a mcumall GQ-4X, no work. 2 different TSOP adapters, could not get a good read.. still sitting on bench... sigh..
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #9
    immelmen No Longer Registered

    Default

    maybe my other posts were misunderstood by some so I will try again. I have all the SMD hot air rework gear required and know how to use it. I do have experience with pulling and reading/writing IC chips, and I am comfortable with both...I just have never done it with Motorola. I have several legacy Astro radios collecting dust so I thought I would put my equipment and past experience to use and rework the radios. So, I am not asking anyone HOW to do it, but rather what specific programing hardware/software they have had success, or failure, with when working on Motorola chips so that I know what or what not to shop for.

    Quote Originally Posted by kd8eyf View Post
    hard part i had was getting the correct adapters and programmer,
    my programmer, a mcumall GQ-4X, no work. 2 different TSOP adapters, could not get a good read....
    Thanks! This is exactly the kind of info I was looking for, for exactly the same reason...I saw the mcumall line of stuff but didnt see the chip part numbers listed as supported in their documentation so I was questioning if they were usable. Mars, thanks for the gouge on Phyton. I figured their stuff was good to go, but since this is a just for fun project I didnt really want to drop $900 for a chipprog-48 and associated adapters. If anyone else has any info on what has or has not worked for them Id love to hear it.

    PS...when Im on a plane I do sit in the cockpit, but I spent eight years building experience flying before my first airline hired me.
    Last edited by immelmen; Jun 11, 2012 at 02:27 AM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 21, 2011
    Posts
    4,051
    Thanks
    2,964
    Thanked 5,774 Times in 1,707 Posts
    Country: Canada

    Default

    Make sure you clean all the flux off the pins on those TSOPs. Flux remover is the only way to do it. Also inspect them with a magnifying lens to make sure there are no bridged pins. My eyes are supposedly 20/20, but even I've found surprises when using a lens.

    If those chips have been in the TSOP adapters before they were cleaned, you'll also need to clean the TSOP adapters with the flux remover.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 22, 2012
    Posts
    25
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts

    Default

    I recently picked up a top 3100 programmer. Works good on the 32 pin stuff, but nogo on the 48 pin tsops. They advertise that it works with the 48 pin chips, but I have had no success. And their support is non existant.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 09, 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    745
    Thanks
    151
    Thanked 348 Times in 149 Posts
    Country: Australia

    Default

    Whats the best thing to use for flux remover? is good old isoprop enough, or is there a specific solvent made for te purpose?

    Cheers,
    Matt

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 04, 2012
    Posts
    159
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked 39 Times in 28 Posts

    Default

    I actually use a USB microscope camera ( ~$75.00 ) instead of the old bench magnifying light for inspection. These do have LED's built in to light the area and provide amazing images of the boards and components vs. struggling with the traditional tools.

  14. #14
    esd_safe No Longer Registered

    Default

    Yes.Mars is correct.

    I believe the flux used during the SMT process and hand solder for any rework done to the Motorola boards were the resin flux which do need to be cleaned off after rework.

    At one time,I used to work for a local EMF(electronic manufacturing facility)and I was a IPC certified hand solder and rework and quality auditor and we mostly used industrial strength iso alcohol and a board cleaner made by Tech Spray.

    For fine pitch leads like that,I suggest a min of a 4x loupe but a 10x loupe will do best for fine pitch inspection.

    During the rework process to remove and resoldering parts back on the board,I suggest using no clean flux like below.








    Quote Originally Posted by Mars View Post
    Make sure you clean all the flux off the pins on those TSOPs. Flux remover is the only way to do it. Also inspect them with a magnifying lens to make sure there are no bridged pins. My eyes are supposedly 20/20, but even I've found surprises when using a lens.

    If those chips have been in the TSOP adapters before they were cleaned, you'll also need to clean the TSOP adapters with the flux remover.

  15. #15
    tim No Longer Registered

    Default

    For flux remover (not the water clean type), I use lacquer thinner. Been doing it for years. Use a q-tip tipped in the juice, and it cleans off all resin/rosin based stuff very well. Try not to breathe the fumes tho. I even go outside on the sidewalk to clean boards sometimes.

    Once they took away my trike (1,1 Trichlorethane) the funny growths stopped. :-)

    Tim

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 13, 2012
    Posts
    190
    Thanks
    23
    Thanked 59 Times in 20 Posts

    Default

    We used techspray flux remover in aerosol can. I think it was 30$ a can $$!!!
    specializing in AES1056 encryption