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Thread: Reading an XTL5000 without a CH

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    Default Reading an XTL5000 without a CH

    I have an XTL5000 (M20QSS9PW1AN) which came to me with only a TIB (no control head), I believe it may have had an O3 attached previously but I can't confirm; my problem, I believe, is that "Control Head[s] Required for Power Up" has been checked in it's codeplug which means I can't sync a new HHCH because the radio won't power up?

    So I removed the TIB and fitted an O5 CH directly to the brick and the radio now powers up (as Fail 01/90 in "Maintenance Mode") but I still can't read the codeplug since the O5 isn't synced either, and I can't sync the CH because I don't know what firmware is in the radio, and I can't find out the firmware version without reading the codeplug (the old catch 22)!

    So my question is, how can I read/write a codeplug without an operational control head? I have tried a 26-pin USB cable connected to the rear of the brick but I don't think the radio is actually booting up to allow the PC to recognize it as a USB device?

    As a last resort I guess I could run through the CH sync sequence over & over again trying a different firmware version each time but that will literally take days. I have tried this a few times already guessing Host versions around what I was told the radio is supposed to be (R12) but without success?
    Andrew


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    BTW, in the Control Head Sync screen there is a picture of an O3 with a grey/silver face which looks cool, I've never seen one before...

    Silver O3 HHCH.jpg
    Andrew

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    Still hoping someone can help me out with this, since I posted above I've tried syncing the O5 control head specifying just about every firmware version without success.

    After that, I attempted to sync it through the "FLASHport > Upgrade Radio" menu and it looks like I've now managed to hose the O5 head I'd borrowed off another (previously functioning) radio, that head now does nothing but display a dark contrast box on the screen!

    So I got a replacement O5 and put back on the donor radio (the one that was working) and guess what... damn "Maintenance Mode" on that radio now as well and I can't get it to sync either!

    I don't know what I'm doing wrong here? This second radio is the same model number as the first, I know the host in it is R12.00.13, the "CH req for pwr up" is definitely not ticked in this codeplug, the control heads were the same part number and I've even swapped out the flex cable but still no go?

    CPS actually says "Sync SUCCESSFUL!!" but the head remains in maintenance mode?

    I am just about to the stage of applying blunt force trauma to this radio with the biggest hammer at my disposal...
    Last edited by Bigfella237; Aug 08, 2012 at 08:17 AM. Reason: syntax
    Andrew

  4. #4
    mtp850 No Longer Registered

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    as i mentioned offline

    I still think what you have been told by the seller is bul****, sounds not right to me.

    my opinion is that it was a W3 HHCH radio that will not read without the correct cable. what you need to do is this

    1. fit the correct HHCH interface board to the radio
    2 fit the HHCH extension cable to the radio
    3. connect the W3 HHCH head on the end of that.
    4. power the radio via the accessory/speaker port on the HHCH extension cable(the cable is about 40cm long) leaving the rear port totally free
    5. connect to the rear of the brick a SERIAL programming cable as early versions of CPS do not understand the USB protocol(with any luck, there is a later version in the radio already
    6. once booted, read and save a copy of the codeplug
    7. perform a flashport upgrade via legit ibutton method(not flashzap) to bring it to the latest stable v16.01

    W3 HHCH is the old skool method that should work with any radio.

    just be careful on how many times you attempt to do different methods, if you jam in a firmware revision or codeplug that has under the byte size of a previous version it will cause codeplug checksum corruption.

    If you really want to go all out and rip chips etc, i can do a fair price for you on it. I have access to a BGA Rework station and the required tools to make repairs(they are all locked away in safe storage and only will surface when required. I don't think this is required yet(although it is an easy to go to option!) BGA is a PITA and my re-workstation cost near 5k and hot air system over 2.2k. not cheap.

    I am near home this weekend however moving out totally by next tuesday, if your near fairfield, drop it in, i'll try and fix it and give it back to you without a charge (usually $110p/h)

    SJ

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    You may be right except I don't have any hardware older than Odyssey to try... but I've set aside that radio (with the TIB) for the moment and I'm trying to sync a "Dash Configuration" radio that I know was working only a matter of hours ago, and which I know the history of and all it's correct firmware versions.

    It should be a simple matter of syncing a new control head but it just doesn't work?

    BTW, I should've mentioned before, I've mostly been using a serial GCAI cable but I did try a USB GCAI cable and a USB 26-pin cable (all OEM) without result, I don't have a serial 26-pin cable but looks like I'll be ordering one shortly?
    Andrew

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    Still trying to sync these two XTL5000s without success and desperately seeking answers, both radios are M20QSS9PW1AN mid-power UHFL...



    The first radio is an O5 dashmount (head attached directly to the brick), host R12.00.13, flashcode 580208-001E84-3; this radio was working perfectly until I borrowed the CH from it and subsequently screwed it trying to sync the second radio, once a (second-hand) replacement O5 CH was fitted it went into maintenance mode and refuses to be synced. I can still read/write a codeplug from/to this radio via the rear port so I know a) the brick has actually booted up and b) "Control Head required for power-up" is not ticked in it's codeplug.

    I've tried syncing this radio with all versions of CPS from R12 to current, with sync files up to "Astro_25_CH_BC.cvn" using both serial & USB GCAI OEM cables (I've also tried syncing through the rear port but apparently that is not supported) and it appears to do all the right things... the display goes green, it runs through the whole ERASING/UPDATING thing and CPS reports that the sync was successful but still the CH stays in maintenance mode!




    The second radio has a PMUN1036A TIB with a HKN6190B (silver) flex attached and a single PMUN1034B O3 HHCH, from the research I've done these are all the correct part numbers for an Odyssey head although I'm not sure if the "A" revision of the TIB could be a problem? This radio will not boot up so I can't read the codeplug even through the rear port, I suspect that "Control Head required for power-up" is ticked in this codeplug?

    I think that because the brick won't boot, the O3 HHCH won't power up (at all), if I press the power button on the O3 I get a click from the speaker and nothing else, not even maintenance mode on this head? So I bought a PMLN4959 W-series cable (as mtp850 suggested) in an attempt to power the radio (or at least power the TIB) through the front 25-pin port but still the O3 head will not power up, meaning CPS fails to communicate when trying to sync.

    I have already tried removing the TIB and fitting an O5 CH directly to the brick (as in dashmount config) and the O5 will power up in maintenance mode but also refused to be synced, I also tried doing a FLASHport upgrade (with a proper iButton) which is how I managed to fry the first O5 (that head now does nothing but display a black box on the screen).

    My last option is to buy a W3 HHCH, I have read that W-series head do not require syncing to the radio, but I believe I would need to change the TIB/flex as well? And I have no way of changing the codeplug from an Odyssey head to a W-series head? Would the radio still recognize the W-series head with the wrong setting?

    If I do this then at least the radio might boot up and I might be able to read/write the codeplug through the rear port, at least I would then be able to confirm a few things (like host version) but I'd be throwing away $200 for a W3 just to try a theory?

    I know I could just send these radios away to be fixed but I would really love to know where I'm going wrong first?
    Andrew

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    I've found an article which mentions having to ground the emergency pin at the rear accessory port before attempting to flash a dashmount XTL, can anyone confirm or deny?
    Andrew

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    The dashmount acc plug does have a emergency jumper installed in it.

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    So it does, thanks Magnus. I just pulled the J2 connector apart to confirm and it has a short white jumper between pins 14 & 15.

    J2 Connector.jpg

    However that didn't make any difference whatsoever, I've again tried syncing the O5 CH both with J2 connected and disconnected, with power applied to pin 25 (IGNITION) and without, but no change.

    CPS still goes through the motions, as does the CH display, then CPS reports that synchronization was successful but still the CH remains in maintenance mode.
    Andrew

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    Quick question: What does pin 8 - "RESET" on that J2 connector actually do?

    Does it simply cycle the radio off and back on or does it have some other data related function?

    I don't suppose it resets the codeplug to default values by any chance, that might resolve my "Control Head Required for Power Up" issue at least?
    Andrew

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    I'm pretty sure that the reset line has to do with getting the radio to go into bootstrap mode for flashing.

    In no case will any signal on the rear connector effect any reprogramming of the unit.

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    I've just discovered another "trap for young players" for the O5 control heads (possibly the O3 as well but I can't confirm at the moment):

    You can put the CH in Bootloader mode by holding the orange button and the far right softkey while powering up, but if you hold the orange button and the left-most softkey while powering up there is another menu that sets the control head's unique number (1 thru 4) for use with multiple control heads.

    This didn't help me with syncing either of the radios above but I thought it might be worth mentioning here, especially if you're attempting to setup multiple heads on an XTL.
    Andrew

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    If you build up a rear rs232 or usb cable can you talk to the radio that way?

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    I have both RS232 & USB rear (26 pin) J2 connector OEM programming cables, on the dashmount O5 radio yes, I can still read/write via the J2

    On the other radio with the TIB / O3 no, the brick doesn't seem to be booting up at all, I suspect because of the aforementioned 'CH req for pwr up' CPS option? I have purchased a W3 HHCH in the hope that the brick will at least boot up and I can read the codeplug but it hasn't arrived yet.
    Andrew

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    I would suspect that the one radio you cannot read is hosed physically and can't be read no matter what control head you out on it.

    The XTL's are very susceptible to static and it doesn't take much to fry one. I'll bet you've got a dead main board.
    Cyrus

    Bubbles: I'd like to see that Red Blue Green c***sucker put one of those together, duct-tapin' it.

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    I'd be lying if I said I haven't had that thought already, I'm just clinging to the hope that it is only that stupid "CH req for pwr up" codeplug option and that it can still be recovered somehow?

    I baffled as to why that option is even there (except maybe just to generate income for the Moto depot)?

    Anyway, once this W3 HHCH arrives I will try that and see if it boots up, if that doesn't work then it's off to someone who can maybe remove whatever chip needs to be reprogrammed to reset the codeplug.

    Failing that it's destined for a dumpster!
    Andrew

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    Did the W3 HHCH work?

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    Sadly no, well at least not yet...

    I was under the misapprehension that if I purchased a W3 HHCH, I could plug it into the J600 (25-pin) accessory port on the newer Odyssey TIB but no, it won't work.

    So now I'm looking for a W-series TIB (the one with the two 25-pin (J5 & J6) connectors) and flex so I can connect the W3 and hopefully get the radio to boot? Although I can't say I've been looking all that hard, I'm pretty much over pouring money into this particular bottomless pit at the moment.

    But if anyone does have a W-Series TIB & flex for an XTL lying around gathering dust, let me know?
    Andrew

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    What about just putting a regular control head on it and seeing if you can boot it?

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    Been there, tried that!

    I've had two different O5 CHs on it but I can't get them to sync for some reason? And because they won't sync, the radio doesn't see a control head and doesn't boot up.

    I've tried doing a full firmware update (with a legit iButton) and managed to fry one of those CHs, so I'm reluctant to try that again, although I've read elsewhere that some have had to go down the full upgrade path just to get a head to sync?

    I think that would probably work if the brick itself was booting up, it's the old Catch 22...
    Andrew

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    To make sure we aren't on different sides of the road, I'm referring to attaching a standard CH, not a remote one. Maybe even trying a 1500 head? Since you're money deep, start with the basics and go from there. I haven't seen that approach posted, but maybe I missed it.

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    Yep, I've tried attaching an O5 directly to the brick (two different O5's actually), and I've tried a remote mount O5 on a CHIB and I've tried an O3 HHCH (which is what I want to end up with on this radio), none of the above would sync with the radio.

    EDIT: I don't have an M-series CH either and I don't think one would work anyway, I think I'd get the "CH Mismatch" error if I tried?
    Andrew

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    M5 and O5 heads are the same electronically, it won't make a difference.

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    Ah okay, I think I was thinking of an XTL2500 which I think uses an M5... not sure which CH the 1500's use?

    Either way I don't have one and don't want to waste even more money trying something that probably won't work?

    I think I'll throw that remote mount XTL back in the box under the stairs, if I happen to find a W-Series TIB I'll drag it back out but I'm over it for now... I still need to find a way to sync a CH with the second (dash mount) radio though?
    Andrew

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    mtp850 No Longer Registered

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    Andrew, I'll message you offline. Let me have a crack at this one!