MOTOTRBO feature requests

[Mars]

There's no way to communicate with Motorola, so perhaps by posting these feature requests (i.e. what the radio CAN NOT CURRENTLY DO), any potential customers will hold off on purchasing radios or stipulate these features get implemented, before they commit to purchasing. Kind of a backwards concept, but it's Motorola.

- Add ARS deregistration behavior for when a subscriber switches to simplex/conventional or to another system. Applicable to Standalone, IPSC, Capacity Plus and Capacity Plus Multi-site. Supposedly the subscriber performs this behavior on Capacity Max systems, so what's the holdup?

- Add the option for a subscriber to TX with the key from a TALKBACK CHANNEL, when in Flexible RX mode. If multiple keys are used on various talkgroups, the radio currently responds (when in talkback on Flexible RX) with the key from the SELECTED CHANNEL. This results in voice communications not being heard by the receiving party, who may not have the voice key from the responding party, or their radio(s) may be set up for the Fixed Privacy Key Decryption (key strapping) mode. An example is a system where two separate groups of users share a common talkgroup (mutual aid for example). Initiator switches to mutual aid channel, and calls recipient, who hears call via Flexible RX. Recipient responds, but since their radio is parked on their home group, with a key the initiator does not have, the initiator does not hear voice traffic (muted) from the recipient. The recipient must manually switch personalities to the mutual channel before responding. This is STUPID AS @#%#.

- The ability to STRAP a key to be used during Private Calls. Same issue as above. Secure system. Initiator, parked on their home group, PCs the recipient. Recipient is sitting on their home group, which is configured with a different key. (Or Fixed Privacy Key Decryption is enabled). The two parties are unable to communicate with each other unless they first switch to a common "Private Call" personality, which has a common key defined, but no Contact (under TX configuration). Obviously no consideration was given to secure systems where GROUPS OF USERS use DIFFERENT KEYS. And no, defaulting to CLEAR COMMS for Private Calls is not an option.

- Same as above, but for Telephone Interconnect calls. KEY STRAPPING/DEFINITION PLEASE.

- Not critical, but there's absolutely no good reason why a user who goes to the MENU --> UTILITIES --> RADIO INFO --> GNSS INFO menu cannot click the OK (menu) button to be presented with a sub-menu to copy or "SEND" the GNSS info to a recipient in their contacts list/manual dial.

- The ability (with appropriate CPS permission provisioning) for a user to access the "DELETE" Persistent LRRP Requests menu, to remove the LRRP persistency for whatever reason, such as the TRBONet Dispatch functionality being down or something. This is not a critical feature, but would be appreciated.

- The ability to configure the Temporary Message Display Timer. This affects messages such as "VOLUME" or the confirmation which is displayed any time a menu button is pressed, "LOW POWER" or "SCAN ON", etc. This timer is 1500 ms. That's far too long. I have manually tweaked this function for 300 ms, and have found it completely speeds up the menu and the radio appears much more responsive. There is absolutely no valid reason to keep this menu setting hidden/inaccessible.

 

[Wodie]

I would add multiple or at least two Radio IDs, so I can have channels with Capacity Plus IDs and longer IDs for non Cap Plus systems.
Add a warning on CPS to users that have a non Cap Plus ID programmed when they have Cap Plus channels.

 

[phonebuff]

Nice list, but in today's Motorola it is probably not worth the bits used.

They seem to be using a Sales needs ...... process where the Marketing teams define the priorities and then the product team determines what they might have resources for. As a side note anyone know what RFP required the in band talker and GPS solutions that they put into M2020.02 ? Hoping they finish the implementation in M2021.01.

I have written maybe 30 product support requests "if we had feature x" and sent them through various processes and channel managers over the years so we could address end customer requests for a feature that the sales people told us would close a deal. Today I don't believe we have seen any of them implemented. GUessing the deals were not large enough.

But as I said great list !

@Mars

- The ability (with appropriate CPS permission provisioning) for a user to access the "DELETE" Persistent LRRP Requests menu, to remove the LRRP persistency for whatever reason, such as the TRBONet Dispatch functionality being down or something. This is not a critical feature, but would be appreciated.

I am a little curious on this one, We had never used the DELETE flag until a recent MNIS bug forced us to recently. However, I can't see a case where we would ever want the end user deleting the persistent LRRP settings. More likely we would queue data till the mapping interface came back up or send an instruction specific delete so we would know it had to be turned back on down the road. We always track the asset not people (HR thing), so people should never be able to impact that tracking.

 

[Mars]

I can't believe I'm writing this, but speaking solely on the future of MOTOTRBO and Motorola's future relevance in the DMR market, I would not recommend their products to anyone at this point, because:

- I question whether or not Motorola will remain in the LMR market. It is fair to ask the "five years from now" question at this point.

- Product/warranty support. If I recommend Motorola's products to a customer who requires a 10-year product/warranty term, I HIGHLY doubt Motorola can commit to it.

- Motorola's unwillingness to listen to customer feedback. This has been a long-standing, MAJOR point of contention. Even the CCRs listen to customer feedback.

- The software platform for MOTOTRBO IS ATROCIOUS. The release of CPS 2.0 has been a disaster. EXTREMELY SLOW performance, lack of function and missing features are just some of the observations. And they want us to pay for a Subscriber Maintenance Agreement? What maintenance is going on? Zero.

- The similarities anyone can draw between an organized criminal syndicate and their "channel partner program" and sales hierarchy. Locally, we have this piece of shit named Martyn, who thinks he runs the show in western Canada. He tells people what they can and can't order, and from whom -- and fixes the pricing. He needs to be investigated for his RICO-like behaviour on behalf of the company. For this reason alone.

Let's say we have a small public safety agency, who has been dealing with their local radio shop for years. Said agency wishes to upgrade to P25 gear, to utilize a province-wide, government-run P25 network. That small radio shop is not able to work for/support/sell to their customer any longer. Piece of shit Martyn decides who sells and supports that customer's P25 radios. Criminal thug mentality.

Martyn, if you are reading this, you know exactly who I am. I think you need to be prosecuted and serve time in prison. Many small dealers are well-aware of your bullshit and have bypassed you by sourcing/reselling USED SECOND-HAND GEAR just so you don't get a piece of the pie. GFY!

 

[max2770]

They should just sell AES already. It's purely to sell more P25 radios, but it doesn't make sense. If you have P25 money, you're the government - if not, I mean it's not a lost sale as the customer couldn't purchase it to begin with. And then they offer AES to police departments but not to business/private customers, again not eating into their P25 sales as very few businesses can afford a P25 system.

Plus, all their competitors are selling it.

 

[Wodie]

I can't believe I'm writing this, but speaking solely on the future of MOTOTRBO and Motorola's future relevance in the DMR market, I would not recommend their products to anyone at this point, because:

- I question whether or not Motorola will remain in the LMR market. It is fair to ask the "five years from now" question at this point.

- Product/warranty support. If I recommend Motorola's products to a customer who requires a 10-year product/warranty term, I HIGHLY doubt Motorola can commit to it.

- Motorola's unwillingness to listen to customer feedback. This has been a long-standing, MAJOR point of contention. Even the CCRs listen to customer feedback.

- The software platform for MOTOTRBO IS ATROCIOUS. The release of CPS 2.0 has been a disaster. EXTREMELY SLOW performance, lack of function and missing features are just some of the observations. And they want us to pay for a Subscriber Maintenance Agreement? What maintenance is going on? Zero.

- The similarities anyone can draw between an organized criminal syndicate and their "channel partner program" and sales hierarchy. Locally, we have this piece of shit named Martyn, who thinks he runs the show in western Canada. He tells people what they can and can't order, and from whom -- and fixes the pricing. He needs to be investigated for his RICO-like behaviour on behalf of the company. For this reason alone.

Let's say we have a small public safety agency, who has been dealing with their local radio shop for years. Said agency wishes to upgrade to P25 gear, to utilize a province-wide, government-run P25 network. That small radio shop is not able to work for/support/sell to their customer any longer. Piece of shit Martyn decides who sells and supports that customer's P25 radios. Criminal thug mentality.

Martyn, if you are reading this, you know exactly who I am. I think you need to be prosecuted and serve time in prison. Many small dealers are well-aware of your bullshit and have bypassed you by sourcing/reselling USED SECOND-HAND GEAR just so you don't get a piece of the pie. GFY!

It is the same in Mexico with a diferent person, he wants to keep big sales for his friends. If any one else try to make an interesting deal, he kick them off.

 

[Sierra Delta]

- The ability to configure the Temporary Message Display Timer. This affects messages such as "VOLUME" or the confirmation which is displayed any time a menu button is pressed, "LOW POWER" or "SCAN ON", etc. This timer is 1500 ms. That's far too long. I have manually tweaked this function for 300 ms, and have found it completely speeds up the menu and the radio appears much more responsive. There is absolutely no valid reason to keep this menu setting hidden/inaccessible.

How did you manually tweak this setting? Did you have to edit the XML settings? I am interested in making this mod as I too don't like how much hang time the temporary message display has.

 

[Mars]

How did you manually tweak this setting? Did you have to edit the XML settings? I am interested in making this mod as I too don't like how much hang time the temporary message display has.

Yeah, it involves a manual edit. Only compatible with CPS 16 (or earlier) software. I cannot post further details/files on the board, but if you email me, I would be happy to point you in the right direction. mars at p25 dot ca.

Note to mods: Perhaps this goes against the rules, but I trust you understand the nature of this particular conversation.

 

[Mars]

They should just sell AES already. It's purely to sell more P25 radios, but it doesn't make sense. If you have P25 money, you're the government - if not, I mean it's not a lost sale as the customer couldn't purchase it to begin with. And then they offer AES to police departments but not to business/private customers, again not eating into their P25 sales as very few businesses can afford a P25 system.

Plus, all their competitors are selling it.

Had this exact conversation with a certain three-letter agency about five years ago. How can anyone call it "criminal copyright infringement" when the so-called copyright holder (AES is an open standard) refuses to sell the product? They are retarded for not accepting payment/profit. I asked every single person I dealt with: "Have you attempted to contact Motorola to purchase this option?" I always pushed people to Motorola. Those whom I spoke with will recall this.

In the end, they just don't want to exercise any common sense or sound business practices. There's also the issue where volunteer firefighters/EMTs are using their PERSONAL APX, XTS/XTL and TRBO radios for both their hobby (ham) and agency purposes. These are dual-use radios. It is not an accepted practice for those agencies to pay for AES in a personally-owned radio. Said individual contacts Motorola to purchase AES, and is told to GF themselves. OK then.

Although I have ample contempt for said three-letter agency, I believe even they were able to understand this BS contention/nonsense after it was explained to them. Add the written consent I had to activate features for hams (non profit/business), and the drama was completely unnecessary.

I had a Hytera PD982g for a while. I wanted AES for it. I contacted a dealer, and the electronic delivery took place within a day. I was more than happy to pay, because Hytera was more than happy to do business with me. Same applies to Kenwood. Heck, you can even activate AES FOR FREE in the Vertex radios.

Motorola's unwillingness to sell AES to end-users, or those who utilize MOTOTRBO gear in North America, has nothing to do with "sensitive encryption technology". It has everything to do with Motorola's REALLY OUT THERE belief that those who need AES should be using P25 radios. Let's not even go there again. No conventional TDMA solution, radios priced 5-10x more money, no dual-mode (P25/DMR support), etc etc.

Motorola is retarded. That is a fact which cannot be argued. There is no talent left there; only morons who have no clue about communications technology. Greg has destroyed what was once the best brand in the two-way business. He gives no Fs about anyone but himself. More than 3/4 of Schaumburg is closed down. Leaking roofs. Rats pooping on everything. Just like the former Hara Arena at Dayton. So sad.

 

[gMan1971]

Well... no talent at all is perhaps a bit too extreme.... one would think that there is some talent left in the engineering department, but... BUT!! no matter how much talent there might be in the engineering team, its useless if management can't find their way out of a paper bag....

And since we are asking, why not add the time of the day to the main screen in the SL7550e/XPR7550e? The APX seem have it... the radios have a GPS, and when you go get the GNSS info, it then shows all the data, except the UT time? I guess time is not important...

G.

 

[max2770]

I run a SAR group. We do medical response and communicate with dispatch. By law since we communicate with 911 dispatch at all, we have to use AES-256. Local owner of the public safety P25 network quoted us some insane figure to get on their network, which we refused.

We contacted Moto to get a DMR system with AES, including a request signed by the 911 dispatch center, local PD, local FD and local EMS, and got told to pound sand. Tait on the other hand was ready to sell us a complete system including portables that are the same housing as their P25 units, so super-rugged, and had absolutely no issues with us having AES. Came down to a grant we didn't get though so that project didn't work out.

We're currently using P25 on simplex with second hand radios for which Moto is getting jack shit, so protecting the revenue stream didn't really work out that well with us. Like a non-profit could afford high 6 figures radio bills. I get the reasoning why P25 is relevant, but for anything else than large scale public safety operators funded by my money and yours, it's not feasible.

Oh, by the way, how do we contact dispatch? PTT over LTE, which funny enough is AES by default.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

I run a SAR group. We do medical response and communicate with dispatch. By law since we communicate with 911 dispatch at all, we have to use AES-256. Local owner of the public safety P25 network quoted us some insane figure to get on their network, which we refused.

We contacted Moto to get a DMR system with AES, including a request signed by the 911 dispatch center, local PD, local FD and local EMS, and got told to pound sand. Tait on the other hand was ready to sell us a complete system including portables that are the same housing as their P25 units, so super-rugged, and had absolutely no issues with us having AES. Came down to a grant we didn't get though so that project didn't work out.

We're currently using P25 on simplex with second hand radios for which Moto is getting jack shit, so protecting the revenue stream didn't really work out that well with us. Like a non-profit could afford high 6 figures radio bills. I get the reasoning why P25 is relevant, but for anything else than large scale public safety operators funded by my money and yours, it's not feasible.

Oh, by the way, how do we contact dispatch? PTT over LTE, which funny enough is AES by default.

Some federal grants require P25 but the amount offered is not worth jack compared to the huge additional cost for P25 equipment.

You are not buying technology, you are buying a swampy ecosystem!

 

[max2770]

Some federal grants require P25 but the amount offered is not worth jack compared to the huge additional cost for P25 equipment.

You are not buying technology, you are buying a swampy ecosystem!

Of course, P25 is a scam to make money leave taxpayers' wallets and go to private telecom corporations. Most of the P25 networks in Canada belong to Bell, the shadiest, most corrupt telco in the country that has been in bed with federal and provincial governments for decades. The majority of public safety should migrate to DMR, keep P25 for the real secret squirrel stuff (military, SWAT, surveillance, counter-terrorism) - meter maids sure as f*** don't need AES-256 P25 on a $6,000 radio.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

I think what gets me worked up is when I hear decision makers claiming they must buy P25 because of "FCC Digital Mandate" there never was any such thing. How that propaganda got spread is really no mystery. Taxpayers are paying the price.

 

[PSEhub]

DMR is missing a lot of features.

The only CURRENT standards that really do it all are NXDN Type C, P25, and Tetra

The fact that you have to steal voice bits for encryption, tx interrupt, and other messaging is totally pathetic.

Additionally, there is no true radio authentication with a non-shared, unique key for each subscriber.

At least with NXDN, the closed ecosystem makes system keys and changing ESNs pretty secure.


ISSI is also way more comprehensive than AIS.

 

[max2770]

Additionally, there is no true radio authentication with a non-shared, unique key for each subscriber.

This is also true for P25, although I heard the new standards aim to fix that. Don't know how that will affect people that have fancy scanners, but it'll for sure shut down NAS.

At least with NXDN, the closed ecosystem makes system keys and changing ESNs pretty secure.

But a closed ecosystem for public safety users creates another set of problems.