Packet data connection using PPP in Windows

[HA5BRG]

Hi guys,

I'd like to ask for help from you. I have an Astro Spectra Plus with the Astro Packet Data FLASHport option enabled. I can select the Data menus in the CPS, I can enter IP addresses and select the communication method too (FNE or Direct).

I began to do some research on the Internet regarding the data communication between ASTRO25 mobile units, using Direct communication. Now I am confused because it is not really clear how to do this. Some Internet topics mention that I will have to install the radio in Windows and other don't mention this anywhere. So I don't know how to proceed, because I have found no windows driver for these radios.

I have read that I may success if I install the radio as a regular 2400 bps modem. But what about setting up the IP addresses? I've found 4 instances of IP address in the CPS. My PC uses a static IP address on the network.


What I already know (correct me if I am wrong):

- W947 Packet Data option is required to set up the radio to transfer packet data
- a direct connection can be used from the PC to the radio, no level converter needed (because there is an RS232/TTL converter inside the radio)
- I must select Direct communication in the CPS instead of FNE
- data communication only works on P25 digital channels, if this feature is enabled
- the radio will take care of controlling the PTT when data stream is sent to it, it will use the RS232 data lines, no external PTT switch is needed
- the connection speed will be slow, yes I am aware of that
- transfer type must be set to half-duplex, since the radio is not full-duplex (but I don't know where can I set this in Windows)
- communication type should be set to 'communication cable between two computers' like this:

https://powerlink.emc.com/nsepn/web...ts/configure_PPP_on_your_windows_computer.htm



My questions are:

- how to set up the IP address fields in the CPS?
- how to set up Windows to communicate with the radio using an RS232 cable connected to the COM port? (I have Win2000/XP and Win 7 too)
- is there a Windows driver for the radio to act as a default modem?
- what applications can be used to communicate over the radio, like if it was a modem (are there any HAM radio applications?)


I think that's all for now

Any help is welcome!

 

[HA5BRG]

I've figured out the following:

- ASTRO25 CPS will only install the XTS/XTL modem drivers only if you are using 32bit (x86 edition) Windows operating systems
- ASTRO25 CPS WILL NOT install modem drivers under 64bit (x64 edition) Windows operating systems
- Windows XP is the oldest OS that R20.00.00 CPS will accept when installing


I successfully communicated with the Astro Spectra Plus via the RS232 cable using my Windows. Unfortunately at this point I can't do more than a so-called modem diagnostics. It can be achieved by doing the following steps:

- go to Control Panel >> Phone and Modem
- click on Modems tab
- clock on Add
- select 'Motorola XTL5000' from Motorola (make sure that you don't select 'XTL5000 Series Radio' from the list. It will not work)
- go to modem properties
- set modem speed to 9600bps (not slower and not faster. Excatly to 9600)
- disable 'wait for dial tone' (or similar to this)

Now you can run a diagnostics and the PC will communicate to the modem inside the radio.



At this point I am not able to do anything more, I don't know how to communicate with the modem, how to transfer data to another unit. If anyone knows, please help.

 

[Alpha]

Now you have a functional equivalent of a Hayes-compatible modem at this point, one that thinks it is more or less already on-line. All you need to do is ATD (no number is needed) or ATA (answer) I believe to initiate the session. You then need some comm-type software that knows the PPP protocol. I don't think HyperTerminal will cut it, you might need better comm software to do it. This may be part of windows (look under dial-up networking, IIRC).

At this point it's like you have dialed your local ISP by phone (remember that? ) and now you need to initiate a PPP session to establish an IP-layer link and receive a local IP address, etc. from the PPP host. I think the radio acts like the PPP host, and will supply the IP address to the client on the PC end.

Once all that is done, it establishes a network-type device that the PC winds up creating, and you would use telnet to push data through that link or whatever... At least, I think it's that high-level. Maybe not, maybe once you ATD it's just a stupid data pipe like an RS-232 cable from one end (radio) to the other.

 

[HA5BRG]

Thank you Will try this when I get home!

Yes, I can remember those good old days when I had to use dial-in connection. Damn, those were really slow

I tried to establish a connection with Windows' internal network connection wizard but it always tried to dial in to somewhere. That was the point where I was lost and stuck in the mud.

Do you have any idea about the better PPP software? You are right, Hyperterminal is not the best for this job.


One more thing:

At the ASTRO Systems / ASTRO System tab there are 2 fields related to some IP addresses:

Subscriber IP and Mobile Computer IP. I think the Mobile Computer IP must match my computer's IP (what is connected to the radio in the meantime with RS232 cable). But what about the subscriber (or radio) IP? Is there a specific format that must be entered? Or can I enter anything? Like 10.10.10.111?

 

[Alpha]

I guess it depends on how smart this all is; if the radio is a PPP host, then the internal windows dial-up networking software should become a PPP client and establish the connection to the radio. That then makes a network device - you can use anything, telnet, browser, etc. to communicate via IP to the other end, where you would need a server (telnet, web, etc.) to talk to.

If it's stupid, and the radio is not a PPP host, then it's like a connected modem end-to-end, you could run HyperTerminal at each end and type "Hello, World" to the other end in half-duplex mode, like a wired pair of terminals. Any higher layers of communications you would have to build upon that basic end-to-end physical layer connection. The question is, is the established link at OSI layer 1 (RS-232) or layer 2 (PPP).

 

[HA5BRG]

I will continue the experiments at the weekend and I will share it with you guys.

One more question: how can I determine if the radio acts as a PPP host or not? I think it will not act as a PPP host but I want to make sure. It was several years ago when I last dealed with this old technology in the PC world.

 

[Twisted_Pear]

- ASTRO25 CPS will only install the XTS/XTL modem drivers only if you are using 32bit (x86 edition) Windows operating systems
- ASTRO25 CPS WILL NOT install modem drivers under 64bit (x64 edition) Windows operating systems

I don't totally remember how I set it up when I was using it to exchange UDP based text messages (like TMS in a sense and used by Staging for basic OTA packet mode testing/verification) but I used Motorola's "Data Link Manager" software that facilitates setting this up. It was done under 64-bit Win7.

View attachment Data Link Manager R01.01.00 NVN5314B.exe.zip

 

[HA5BRG]

Thank you

I have installed it on my PC. OS is Windows 7 x64. The Data Link Manager did not install any modem-related files, so the Motorola/Motorola Radio option can not be selected under Modems in Control Panel.

I had to install the application on my old Windows XP 32bit operating system. On that old PC I am able to select COM1 or USB.

I'll continue experimenting and keep you updated.

 

[HA5BRG]

After some hard work with the radios we achieved something. Me and one of my friends were able to ping each other's radios over the air and also ping the PC connected to the radios with the RS232 cables.

It was really tricky to get Data Link Manager working on both computers with both radios but finally we managed to do it. I will document the steps we made so everyone can play with it in the future.

I still have some questions:

At Astro Systems / Astro Systems-1 there are 2 IP fields. One for Subscriber Air IP and one for Mobile Computer IP. This is clear. One goes for the radio and other for the PC that is connected via RS232 cable using PPP connection.

But at the Radio Wide CPS menu there are two other IP addresses:

- Subscriber IP
- Mobile Computer IP

What is the role of these IP fields? Because the Astro Systems IPs are used when the radio is communicating in digital mode. And these? Why are these included? When do I have to use these? How? Why?

I tried to google, I've read the help files. No use

 

[Twisted_Pear]

I've used them in coordination with the NAT List (set to the .2 mobile comp IP) to do my tests over a trunked system. In that instance I set my laptop to an IP on the CEN and used the default values for IPs under Radiowide.

I forgot to mention I've only done the testing via trunked systems. I never have via conventional.

 

[HA5BRG]

Yes I have set up the NAT too. I've entered the mobile computer's (PPP) IP address and Port 80 to both WAN and LAN.

 

[HA5BRG]

Yesterday evening we achieved something:

- we could ping both radios with their 'over the air IP address'
- we could ping both PCs connected to these radios with their 'mobile PC IP address'

All PCs and all radios must use the same subnet IP address, like we did:

- Radio #1 over the air IP: 192.168.9.19
- PC #1 connected to Radio #1: 192.168.9.254

- Radio #2 over the air IP: 192.168.9.200
- PC #2 connected to Radio #1: 192.168.9.201


We could use RealVNC application to get (an extremely slow) remote desktop connection. The link was established and one PC could control the other with 9600 bps. But unfortunately we could not access each other's shared folders in windows and we could not set up a shared internet connection. Don't know why.

 

[Alpha]

Glad you got it up and running! For the most part, anyway... Remote desktop is a bit intensive for such a slow connection, it was meant to run with more lightweight stuff like simple telnet or custom applications that pushed IP datagrams to terminal software on the in-car PC that represented status/message type buttons, but using pre-defined code, etc. so not a HUGE amount of data had to be sent over the slow links to achieve their function.

The likely reason that you're having problems with connection sharing, is that Windows likes to use NetBIOS for that instead of IP, and that's probably not being carried over the link. Try going to the adapter properties, TCP-IP properties, and select "Use NETBIOS over IP always" or somesuch, and also in "advanced", select TCP/IP as the default protocol for that adapter. That may help to not use NetBIOS (aka Lan Manager).

 

[HA5BRG]

Yep, I was thinking about enabling NetBIOS. I'll try it this evening when I get home.

I have talked to the networking experts at my company, I thought that they might have some experience with manual routing on a Windows based PC with two network cards. Unfortunately they didn't even understand what my problem is

I think routing between the PPP connection and the real network card (what is connected to the internet) will be harder than I thought.

Huh...

 

[ronen]

In order to be able to route trafic to the internet you need to allow it to be as arouter or a Proxy
i dont know what OS you use but you can ider add lines like route add default < the PPP ip network> to the radio Ip network s that if it want to connect to other networks it will go to the PC and then to the PPP interface
Or you may instakll some routers Or proxy Software on the PC that connected to the InterNet .

Intresting Project Im also in a way of connecting our (new) P25 Repeater to the Internet in order to give the P25 Users Internet connection

Good luck
Ronen - 4Z4ZQ
http://www.ronen.org

Yep, I was thinking about enabling NetBIOS. I'll try it this evening when I get home.

I have talked to the networking experts at my company, I thought that they might have some experience with manual routing on a Windows based PC with two network cards. Unfortunately they didn't even understand what my problem is

I think routing between the PPP connection and the real network card (what is connected to the internet) will be harder than I thought.

Huh...

 

[HA5BRG]

I am using Windows XP Professional 32bit operating system on my computers.

Important note:

- By default, TCP-IP forwarding and manual routing is disabled in Win XP. It must be enabled with a little hack in the registry
- NetBIOS should be enabled above TCP-IP
- On XP machines, browsing among other PC's shared folders sometimes does work and sometimes it does not. There is a bugfix for this at support.microsoft.com.

I am not a networking expert. I made all these modifications and tried to play with ROUTE command in the CMD window (command line) with no success.

 

[HA5BRG]

Guys,

Maybe some of you could help me...

How can I establish PPP connection with the radio in Windows XP? I want to get rid of Motorola Data Link Manager, as that application is taking over all control of the ROUTE command of Windows, therefore I am not able to manualy set up routing tables and other network configurations when Data Link Manager is online.

I tried to set up the connection at Control Panel / Modems with a regular 9600 bps modem but it can't even fing the radio, diagnostics fail (while using Data Link Manager, the radio is recognized by the PC).