TRBONet Dispatch 5.7 - Caller Location

[Mars]

Has anyone actually had success in getting the "Caller Location" feature from M2020.02 working with TRBONet Dispatch 5.7? This is the "voice with GPS" function.

I have a location profile built with "Every PTT" and all the right options configured. I've tried with and without scheduled reporting (every 60 secs for example) and I have done the Advanced-->Reset Location Trigger numerous times, to refresh the LRRP instructions. I have tried many things. No dice.

If anyone has it working, I would appreciate hearing what settings you're using in the Location Profile tab. Thanks!

 

[phonebuff]

@Mars,

Can't help with the completive product, but can I assume you have updated the MNIS, as I believe this only works with Wireline Data right now and the most current MNIS. Also, as you noted with Talker Alias the repeaters need to be updated as well.

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[TRENT310]

We are running MNIS 2020.1.18 with Crypto on this system in question. Is there a newer version out?

 

[phonebuff]

@Mars @TRENT310

S/B - MNIS Data Gateway - R20.02.0042 according to the M2020.02 Release Notes -

Caller Location:
Caller Location allows for a transmit radio to send a location update during a voice call. The console is able to receive and display the updated location from the caller while in a call. Two options are available for the configuration of start/stop triggers with this feature: “All Voice Calls” and “Emergency Voice Call Only”. Caller Location supports the following call types: Individual Call, Talkgroup Call, Broadcast Call, All Call, Emergency Call, and Telephone Call. Note that Indoor Location is not supported with this feature

MOL -
MOTOTRBO Network Interface Service (MNIS) With Privacy (08 Oct 2020 Application 128MB)
MNIS is as Data Gateway (middleware) between a Motorola or 3rd party Data Applications and the Repeaters in the radio system. Build R20.02.0042 NEW !!

 

[Mars]

TRENT310 is co-admin of the system in question. Here's what we're at:

Subs: R02.20.02.0002
Repeaters: R20.20.02.05
MNIS: R2020.1.18
DDMS: 3.100.5001.0
TRBOnet Server/Dispatch: 5.7.0.5115

I see R20.02.0042 (wtf version scheme is this compared to above?) appears newer, so I'm grabbing that from my dealer, now. I will update. Thanks phonebuff.

 

[Mars]

So I updated MNIS. Still doesn't work. Everything else works fine. I am aware of the release notes description, the configuration within TRBOnet Dispatch (for on PTT trigger) etc. The feature simply does not work. With PTT trigger enabled, when I key up (I'm aware it must be longer than 5 seconds), my location icon turns blue (from green, with fix) and it doesn't move/update whatsoever. After I unkey, and the radio sends a normal LRRP update, the subscriber appears on the map again.

I have spent 6-7 hours on this. I have tried every configuration. I have tried disabling MSI UDP compression on sub (matched settings in MNIS obviously), clear/encrypted, etc. It's just broken. That's all there is to it. No one tested it before releasing it. I'm not shocked or anything -- this is Motorola we're talking about here. Hams test Pi-Star with more passion/competence than Motorola tests their subscriber firmware/platforms.

 

[phonebuff]

@Mars

So it may be MSi or it may be TRBONet but I will say that this feature like so many other features released lately may not be fully implemented.

If you use Persistent LRRP you also might try checking the DELETE as well, writing the modified code plug and then retesting.

Lastly, you can go into MNIS and forward the LRRP Port to another system where you can run iperf.exe to see what if anything the subscriber is sending you. Wayne had a good write up on using this to test UDP handshakes.. Or at least a Wireshark -
https://cwh050.blogspot.com/2021/02/how-to-check-if-nat-is-working.html

Sorry, I can't confirm this for you, but all of our customers have Covid alleges to updates right now and will not go past R02.10.. So we are focused on a Wave on Cloud customer project right now.

Good Luck --

 

[Radioguy7268]

I don't know, because I haven't even messed with this feature yet, but does the Caller Location feature use CBSK block signaling for it's format? Is the repeater set up with a correct GPS location in the MNIS server? Testing location may be different than final destination??

 

[Mars]

I don't know, because I haven't even messed with this feature yet, but does the Caller Location feature use CBSK block signaling for it's format? Is the repeater set up with a correct GPS location in the MNIS server? Testing location may be different than final destination??

CSBK isn't supported on encrypted systems, or where confirmed data delivery is enabled. That said, just to put this to rest, I will reconfigure a subscriber and the system to test to see if CSBK is a requirement for voice+GPS to function, and report back a little later.

From system planner:

4.18
CSBK Data System Design Considerations

When configuring the CSBK data feature in a system, keep in mind the following items:

• CSBK data does not support Basic Privacy, Enhanced Privacy, or any foreseeable privacy features.

• CSBK data does not support confirmed data delivery mode even if the data call confirmed is configured by CPS.

• The CSBK data can only be routed to the PC through a USB connection.

• The ARS and LRRP protocols are enhanced to support CSBK data. Therefore legacy LRRP and ARS application server cannot work with the CSBK data feature enabled.

• The location information is compressed into a single CSBK, and recovered at the control station or MNIS with the location information of the repeater. IPSC/Capacity Plus Multi Site does not work with a control station for location CSBK data, because the control station does not know where the location data comes from. However, IPSC/Capacity Plus Multi Site works with the MNIS.

 

[Mars]

OK, just tested with CSBK enabled, with and without MSI (Advantage) UDP compression, clear/secure and location delivery confirmed/unconfirmed configurations. Still doesn't work. It's a broken feature, that's all there is to it. To be clear, regular LRRP works just fine. No issues. These configurations were implemented on the subs AND the MNIS/TRBOnet backend. I wasted another 2+ hours on this nonsense.

Motorola sucks for not having thorough documentation as to the implementation of this. Same with Neocom, which is the company that sells TRBOnet.

 

[xpr8300]

At least you aren't knee deep in the abortion that was born from SDI and Motorola's marriage called Fireground Accountability. I really think it was invented by Jack Kevorkian. Come to think of it, maybe HE is Moto's lead test engineer!

 

[PSEhub]

What if you set it up for enhanced and put in the partial latitude/longitude in MNIS?

Also be sure to disable enhanced channel access.

Thats my current working config

 

[Mars]

Enhanced Channel Access is what sets aside a proper Motorola system from some ghetto hammy system, where everybody is keying over top of each other, so disabling that is not an option. It is unfortunately enabled by default in all Capacity Plus configurations, and cannot be disabled. So I guess it doesn't work on those types of systems.

We do have the lat and long locations for the sites in MNIS, but around these parts, with the coverage we have, it is irrelevant because that can actually change by a degree or two.

It may be possible to get this feature working on some systems, but I'm willing to forget about it on ours. It's a half working bastardized implementation in the first place, and I certainly wouldn't give up Enhanced Channel Access, even if I could. I can't stand listening to ham garbage like brandmeister, where everybody is talking over top of each other and no one is hearing each other, because of all the latency and quick keying.

All this said, I do appreciate the effort you put in to try and get this feature working. Sadly, Motorola has provided zero documentation, like always. Autistic children.

 

[PSEhub]

Enhanced Channel access is not supported with enhanced GPS, at least on LCP. So thats why we have to have it disabled. Enhanced GPS won't work with it turned on

It shouldn't affect inband location, however that just happens to be the working config I have