Vertex/Motorola Compatability for AES?

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Navy_BOFH

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I have a couple of XPR7550e's with AES - and a couple EVX-534s with AES (as part of the "enhancement" firmware released years back). Inputting the same key seems to not help - even between Simplex or "Repeater Capable" encryption. I am assuming it is DMR compliant between the two... but that I might have missed something on the Motorola or Vertex side.

The second issue I have is the radios in simplex don't want to talk to each other. The Vertex will talk to the Motorola - but not the other way around. This is in simplex without the "dual capacity" enabled on each radio - since I do not have a radio to use as the "timing master" as recommended. This is all meant to be communications for a specific use where AES is what is being aimed for - and without jumping to APXs and single-key AES and/or a KVL.

Any info is greatly appreciated. I feel like I am running around in circles trying to fix these issues that *shouldn't* be an issue.
 

Notarola

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Navy; Check the legacy key check box in the TRBO CPS. When Moto implemented AES they did so before the DMR standard was in existence. My thought is that having that box checked is your issue.
 
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Navy_BOFH

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I checked the Secure menu and the individual channels and couldn't find a Legacy check box. Radios are on R2.9 firmware. That could explain my simplex issues as well though if something is set to Motorola proprietary instead of DMR standard.
 
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Navy_BOFH

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Hmm makes me wonder now if the Vertex radios have a non-standard implementation of AES now.... though I have seen stories of Vertex and Hytera talking to each other.

This is becoming a struggle for me since the 7550s were very pricey but these Vertex radios are cheap enough to use... preferably without changing out everyone's audio accessories from Motorola when running encrypted.
 

Mars

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In the Motorola 5000/7000 series radios, support for the AES standard is not accessed via the codeplug settings. It’s a menu option within the subs. This menu option enables or disables (or should I say toggles Moto-proprietary/non-proprietary AES mode). It’s likely the Vertex is using the early, non-standard proprietary mode.

Menu—>Utilities—>Radio Settings:

IMG_6882.jpg

Disable this option, then try talking to the Vertex radios.

Note: this option is not the same as “AES Privacy”, which enables or disables AES encryption on a given channel.
 

Notarola

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Thanks Mars. It looks like they moved the setting to the radio from the CPS.
 
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Navy_BOFH

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I'll be checking that out today! I am determined to figure out these issues since Motorola doesn't want to sell AES... and the Vertex radios are cheap enough to mess with.
 

Mars

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Thanks Mars. It looks like they moved the setting to the radio from the CPS.
Nothing with them makes any sense. You’d think this option would be prominent, in the channel settings, or maybe under security.
 

syntrx

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Navy, how did you go with Motorola proprietary mode and Vertex compatibility?

An org I'm associated with is interested in picking up a hundred or so EVX-S24s, but I want to get an idea as to whether they're compatible with anything else in the market.
 

techman

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Navy, how did you go with Motorola proprietary mode and Vertex compatibility?

An org I'm associated with is interested in picking up a hundred or so EVX-S24s, but I want to get an idea as to whether they're compatible with anything else in the market.

AES is part of the DMR standard. I have not tried the vertex line (company I work for will not sell vertex any more) but I have not had issues with other main line vendors talking providing they are setup correctly.

Also look at your options, I found some dealer quoting an rrp pricing of $550 per license (factory) installed, this seems excessive plus if it is factory installed, it will be special order. Other vendors have field activation features so minimal wait if they have hardware on the shelf.
 

syntrx

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Vertex radios definitely don't speak DMRA standard AES; that has been well established already. But I'm trying to find out whether they might be compatible with Motorola's proprietary AES mode.

I'm going to get one to play with soon anyway, but wanted to see if others had already figured this out.
 
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Navy_BOFH

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I kept tinkering and playing and put it on the backburner. I couldn't get AES to play nice... nor simplex either through time-slotted with a timing master (A 5550 mobile in that case) or "full bandwidth" simplex. I got fed up with the constant codeplug read/writes to play with it and left the Vertex in a corner somewhere.

I was disappointed it wouldn't talk nicely. I always assumed Vertex didn't have the same mentality as Motorola to nerf a DMRA standard but here we are...
 

Notarola

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Im suspicion is that if vertex is comaptable with Moto it will be the proprietary version. Vertex had AES added about the time moto first came up with their non standard AES.

I am still not 100 sure what the difference is between the 2 versions. A couple of known key samples may help determine that info. I can confirm that there is no difference in the DMR/TRBO headers both show up as AES algo. I can also confirm that AES DMR - AES-DMR works fine and AES-MOT -AES MOT works fine BUT AES-DMR to AES-MOT results in garbage on the speaker (not muted). Both are using the same key.
 
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