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XPR5550 Audio Levels

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NotATechGuy

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I've been struggling to find an answer for a problem I'm having with the XPR 5550 audio levels. I'm using it for a mix of analog and digital channels. The digital channels audio come in very low and the analog channels are very loud. RSSI for all channels are strong. I can't find any kind of attenuation or boost for audio on single channel, only radio wide. It is very annoying while scan is on and the audio levels are all over the place. Does anyone know of a solution?

Radio: XPR 5550 UHF Upper split
Firmware R02.50.05
Audio Profile:
Intelligent Audio Response: Disabled, Audio Environment: Work Group, Preference: Default, AF Suppressor: On, Noise Suppressor: Enhanced Auto, Trill Enhancement: Off.
 

Mars

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What is your AGC set for? Turn it on for both analog and digital.

Turn AF suppressor off. It makes your RX audio sound tinny and shitty.
 
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NotATechGuy

NotATechGuy

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What is your AGC set for? Turn it on for both analog and digital.

Turn AF suppressor off. It makes your RX audio sound tinny and shitty.

AGC is on for both. VOX Sensitivity Level 2. Going to turn off the AF Suppressor and see how it sounds. Speaking of the AF Suppressor at work a lot of times people will key up with other radios around turned up and cause a feedback loop. Does the AF Suppressor help at all? I've never been able to tell if it's working on my 7550.
 

Mars

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AF suppressor works, but it should not be required. People should be using the correct audio accessories to avoid howling in the first place. Mouth breathers. I'm serious about this: use audio accessories with earpieces. Bluetooth headsets are junk; use wired stuff.

Try using the LOUD audio ambience setting. This will boost the RX levels of incoming digital audio. It does not affect analog.

By doing that, you can turn your volume down and things should be a little more equalized between analog and digital.
 
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NotATechGuy

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I'll give that a shot and report back. Turning off AF didn't do too much in regards to volume, just quality. Thanks so much Mars.

As far as my co-workers, half don't use accessories just the issued XPR3500. Then there are some that are cheap and buy non-motorola RSMs off ebay. A few bought Motorola RSMs. Only one co-worker uses an ear piece to my knowledge. I'm the only one with a 7550 and an INC RSM in the field. It's hopeless there.
 
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NotATechGuy

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Try using the LOUD audio ambience setting. This will boost the RX levels of incoming digital audio. It does not affect analog.

This did the trick. Analog and digital are much more equal in volume now. Thanks for the advice Mars!
 

Mars

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This did the trick. Analog and digital are much more equal in volume now. Thanks for the advice Mars!
Anytime. I'm kind of a dick, but even Motorola listens to me about audio. :baby:
 
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NotATechGuy

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Haha, I've been following your posts about audio for quite a long time now and was stoked when you replied to my issue with audio. Would you believe this, the digital audio is actually a little too loud now but its better than it being too quiet. I can deal with that. Maybe you can nudge Motorola to allow user defined decibel levels. They allow custom AGC levels, why not rx audio levels? So primitive.
 

Mars

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Haha, I've been following your posts about audio for quite a long time now and was stoked when you replied to my issue with audio. Would you believe this, the digital audio is actually a little too loud now but its better than it being too quiet. I can deal with that. Maybe you can nudge Motorola to allow user defined decibel levels. They allow custom AGC levels, why not rx audio levels? So primitive.
AGC doesn't have custom levels; you're thinking of the linear audio gain settings. I frown upon using linear gain unless it's for a very specific application in a very noisy environment. The DMR-MARC people recommended linear gain for the longest time because Motorola's AGC functionality was broken. Now that it's fixed, (most) everyone should be using it.

I rarely use analog anymore and I've become used to the consistency of digital audio amplitude when AGC is properly implemented. That said, my buddy still scans analog channels and he's always complaining about them being too quiet. Yes, there are differences, but part of the problem is many radios/repeaters aren't properly aligned or programmed for consistent spec'd deviation and amplitude levels. A Quantar for example, operating in analog mode, benefits greatly when "Analog Boost" is enabled.

Digital, by nature of using a codec, sounds unnatural. That's just the way it is. When amplitudes (input levels to the DSP) aren't controlled properly, the regenerated audio sounds terrible, and we notice it much sooner than similar issues on an analog system. Your ear's tell you, "Hey, this doesn't sound normal". That's why people bitch and moan about digital. The same applies to digital packet loss. They don't complain much about static or hiss on analog!

There's progress to be made to resolve amplitude differences between digital and analog in the XPR line, but educating users and maintaining subs/infrastructure goes a long way, too.

In the end, there's no fix-all solution. We can only make incremental changes which help make the overall experience more bearable.
 
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NotATechGuy

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Understood. While I agree educating users and maintaining subs/infrastructure goes a long way, some 'expert' settings would be nice to tweak. In regards to my AGC comment; I was referring to user defined Mic Gain. It would be nice to be able to set the boost level under the Audio profile instead of it being hard coded to "Selecting this option boosts the Rx volume around 8dB".

I understand the war between analog and digital voice quality and they will never match. Having some control on the users end would be nice but it's a double edge sword having someone uneducated making things worse. I'm torn between which I like more. I prefer how digital voice sounds over a P25 system vs analog (MOTOTRBO has come a long way but isn't quite there). I wish there wasn't such a delay when you talk over a digital system. Makes it very hard for me to concentrate if I'm hearing my voice delayed a second in the background because someone didn't turn their radio down. I try to educate my co-workers but it goes in one ear and out the other and they blame the radios and system. Their scapegoat is "This radio system is shit" or "These radios are a piece of crap". I've also found that there are so many more deadspots with my employers MOTOTRBO system vs analog and even the cities P25 system. I get frustrated when I need to reach dispatch and I get the tone that I can't hit the repeater. I shouldn't have to rely on my cell phone to talk to my dispatchers especially in an emergency. I could rant forever on this topic but my goal here is to equal out digital vs analog Rx levels on my 5550.
 

Mars

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I prefer how digital voice sounds over a P25 system vs analog (MOTOTRBO has come a long way but isn't quite there).
It likely will never sound as smooth as P25. There's some important differences to note; some of which you may already be familiar with, but I'll share here so others can understand.

P25 Phase I (conventional and trunking) uses 9600bps of data on a Frequency Dvision Multiple Access (FDMA) channel. Of that 9600bps, 4400bps is used by the Improved Multi-Band Excitation (IMBE) vocoder, while 2800bps is used for Forward Error Correction (FEC) and another 2400bps is used for embedded data, to send information such as the Radio ID (RID), GPS information, Soft ID, encryption algorithm/KID ID, manufacturer ID, etc. (4400 + 2800 + 2400 = 9600).

DMR uses 4800bps of data on a two-slot Time Division Multiple Access (TDMA) channel. Of the 4800bps, 2450bps is used by the Advanced Multi-Band Excitation +2 (AMBE+2) vocoder, with 1150bps used for FEC and 1200bps is used for embedded data. Since there's two time-slots, the total combined bit-rate for both is 9600bps.

The key differences between P25 Phase I and DMR are the vocoders and the bit-rates. AMBE+2 is newer and is extremely efficient at low bit-rates and handles background noise (unwanted crap audio) much better than IMBE. It wins hands down for getting rid of noise associated with road/vehicle/industrial/machinery/factory/engines, etc. That said, the P25 IMBE vocoder runs at nearly double the bit-rate and has better fidelity because of this. But it also takes up an entire RF channel -- not efficient by today's standards.

I did extensive work last summer to improve the audio quality of the MOTOTRBO platform. It does sound much better now. First-gen products still need the changes ported to a new template/firmware release. That's not my doing; I do not work for Motorola. I only consulted and sent the fixes to them. They were implemented in R02.50.xx in second-gen products. Motorola also included some of their own enhancements. Overall, 2.50 is a major improvement. Digital AGC must be enabled to take full advantage of the enhancements.

I wish there wasn't such a delay when you talk over a digital system. Makes it very hard for me to concentrate if I'm hearing my voice delayed a second in the background because someone didn't turn their radio down.
I know you know this, but for mouth-breathers reading this, the solution is for people working in close proximity to use proper audio accessories. i.e. in-ear solutions. No howling, no digital echos. Ideal solution, but rarely happens in the real world. Too many people with deviated septums.

I try to educate my co-workers but it goes in one ear and out the other and they blame the radios and system.
They're just too stupid to use the radios properly, that's all. Take pride in knowing you're trying to improve the issues and make things better.

I've also found that there are so many more deadspots with my employers MOTOTRBO system vs analog and even the cities P25 system. I get frustrated when I need to reach dispatch and I get the tone that I can't hit the repeater.
Have you ruled out programming errors? Setting the Admit Criteria to "Color Code Free" if it's currently set for "Channel Free" could resolve some of those issues.

You may also consider enabling "Enhanced Channel Access" if you're using a stand-alone or IPSC digital channel. That will prevent users from talking over each other (or keying up at the same time), which will cause missed transmissions and packet loss.

In my testing, I've found DMR useful until signals reach about -122 to -124 dBm. That's very acceptable. You may wish to investigate the noise floor of your RX channel at the repeater site. Interference/site-noise affects analog signals differently than digital (packet loss, instead of popping/crackling). Consider a preselector on your RX channel. It will knock noise down about 4-6 dB. There are several Motorola preselectors on eBay these days, for very decent prices.

If your idle noise floor (analog or digital) is higher than the weakest workable DMR signal, you're losing range. (ex.: noise floor of -115 dBm is masking a workable -120 dBm DMR signal). A good preselector will have an insertion loss of less than 1.2 dB. You lose that, but gain the 4-6 dB back on your quieter noise floor.

I shouldn't have to rely on my cell phone to talk to my dispatchers especially in an emergency. I could rant forever on this topic but my goal here is to equal out digital vs analog Rx levels on my 5550.
The radio system will only work as well as it's maintained. Infrastructure maintenance/configuration is equally important as subscriber programming/configuration/training. Document your system/user complaints and investigate the causes. Improvements can be made; some easier to implement than others.

Subscriber programming is the most overlooked component in system issues/complaints.
 
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