• If posting about a radio issue: Include the HOST, DSP and UCM/secure firmware versions, flashcode and CPS version you're using along with the operating system info. This is critical information.

XTS4000 Programming cable schematic needed

Status

Eaton

Prolific Contributor
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
189
Hi folks!
I've purchased an UHF XTS4000 recently. Now I'm in a desperate need of a programming cable, but OEM $300 cable is too much for me to afford. So I've been thinking of another solution...
I've got an OEM XTS1500/2500/5000 RS-232 cable. What if I disassemble it's radio side connector and replace it with Iden connector? Since XTS4000 is Astro25 and uses the same programming software as "big" XTS portables, I don't think the cable interface is different for the covert XTS. So it's only the pinout that I'm looking for.
Does anyone have a schematic of the XTS4000 prog cable? I mean I need to know the purpose of each pin of a XTS4000 connector, then I'm just gonna solder the Iden connector to my XTS cable accordingly.
Thanks in advance!
 

Radio Crazy

Contributing Member
CS Forums $upporter
Joined
Mar 16, 2012
Messages
77
Get a Iden falcon serial cable. Part # should be NKN6560 around $30
 

Mars

Prolific Contributor
CS Forums $upporter
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Messages
4,989
Hi folks!
I've purchased an UHF XTS4000 recently. Now I'm in a desperate need of a programming cable, but OEM $300 cable is too much for me to afford. So I've been thinking of another solution...
I've got an OEM XTS1500/2500/5000 RS-232 cable. What if I disassemble it's radio side connector and replace it with Iden connector? Since XTS4000 is Astro25 and uses the same programming software as "big" XTS portables, I don't think the cable interface is different for the covert XTS. So it's only the pinout that I'm looking for.
Does anyone have a schematic of the XTS4000 prog cable? I mean I need to know the purpose of each pin of a XTS4000 connector, then I'm just gonna solder the Iden connector to my XTS cable accordingly.
Thanks in advance!
Connector pinout is in the service manuals. Those are posted in the related section of the forum.

Those falcon cables Radio Crazy is talking about can be had for $5-10 on eBay. Seriously. LOTS of surplus iDen gear out there, which is why they're so inexpensive. Save yourself the work. Your time is worth more than $10/hr.
 

Bigfella237

Ø Tactical OTAR Slayer
Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
474
I thought I read somewhere that while those iDen cables will program an XTS4000, when connected they cause the radio to Tx whenever it's not being read/written?

Which I guess is not really a problem, just so long as you're aware of it.
 

Mars

Prolific Contributor
CS Forums $upporter
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Messages
4,989
I thought I read somewhere that while those iDen cables will program an XTS4000, when connected they cause the radio to Tx whenever it's not being read/written?

Which I guess is not really a problem, just so long as you're aware of it.
No. It does something like disables the speaker or something. There's a mod I have from one of my buddies which details how to disable the unwanted issue. Let me find it and I'll post.

FWIW, I also have a UHF 4K and use the iDEN serial cable. Works perfect. But I do believe I modded mine. Perhaps I'll have to open the cable up and post a pic.
 
N

Neo

Not Registered
On a Falcon serial cable part # NKN6560A the only pins that need to program the XTS4000 are;
1 (ground)
3 (optB+_vpp)
4 (rs232_tx_usb+)
5 (rs232_rx_usb)
6 (rts)
8 (cts)

Unsolder the other wires and secure them (I just cut the unused wires after unsoldering then).

Remember on the Falcon cable, odd numbered pins are soldered on one side, even numbered pins on the other side.
 
OP
Eaton

Eaton

Prolific Contributor
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
189
Thank you for the replies!
I've decided to buy a Falcon cable - they are cheap indeed! But when I was looking for them on eBay, I saw a couple of USB cables as well. Does anyone know if they will work with XTS4K or shall I stick to RS-232 only?

But I do believe I modded mine. Perhaps I'll have to open the cable up and post a pic.
It would be great if you show me what it looks like inside. Thanks
 

Bigfella237

Ø Tactical OTAR Slayer
Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
474
I seem to be spending a lot of my time recently capturing connector schematics from service manuals...

Seems both Mars and myself were remembering correctly, depending on the cable (or the option select pins to be more precise) the incorrect cable may cause the radio to Tx or it may mute the audio.

CE Connector.jpg
 
Last edited:

Magnus

Prolific Contributor
CS Forums $upporter
Joined
Dec 12, 2011
Messages
1,240
4k's are rs232 only AFAIK.
 

Bigfella237

Ø Tactical OTAR Slayer
Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
474
The NKN1029A is the USB programming cable for the XTS4000 but for US$361.00 (versus a $10 iDen cable) you'd want to be programming a LOT of radios!

NKN1029A.jpg
 
OP
Eaton

Eaton

Prolific Contributor
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
189
Hi All!I've finally received an RS-232 Iden programming cable. Without modification, it made the radio's display light up and show "Headset connected" message when attached. I've decided to unsolder the unused pins. Now everything works ok except for the speed of programming. It took me 7 minutes to read the radio and 15 to write back the modified codeplug (15 zones, FPP enabled, CPS R17.01.00) I thought the radio was going to die, but luckily it is allright, for the time being, at least.The software seems to be bugged up when writing to radio. The progress bar shows up only two marks and stops. It looks really scary!Anyway, an Iden cable is a working solution for XTS4000, I've got to admit it. So thanks to everyone who helped me save $250+! :)One more question I want to ask: "Radio information" tab tells me that my radio is capable of having up to 512 modes, but with the FPP enabled it's impossible for me to create more than 15 zones. What's wrong? Maybe it's because mu radio is from The 123ABC1234 family?
 

Mars

Prolific Contributor
CS Forums $upporter
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Messages
4,989
Eaton:

First, what firmware is in your 4000? It is not recommended to use CPS 17, with a radio not flashed with firmware 17. I've done extensive playing around, and I can honestly say there's some kind of difference/enhancement, which seems to make CPS 17/firmware 17 go hand-in-hand with each other. Once I upgraded to firmware 17, things were much smoother.

As for FPP: You are limited to 240 zones/modes which are FPP'able. No way around it. The remaining zones/modes are non-FPP.

Also, if you are using firmware newer than R12.xx.xx (I assume yes, as you have the 240-mode FPP flashcode), consider doing the 2000-mode enhancement if you wish to have more channels than 512. Mod is here. But before you go doing it, please post your firmware and flashcode. There are mandatory perquisites for the mod.
 

Bigfella237

Ø Tactical OTAR Slayer
Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
474
Generally speaking, I always try to use the revision of CPS that matches the firmware version in the radio, that way you know the CPS has been written for and can use all of the features in the firmware and vice versa?

Of course this means you often need multiple revisions of the same CPS installed on your PC but that's another conversation completely...

It's been a while since I read/wrote a 4000 but I don't recall it taking any longer than usual, I doubt it's a problem with the cable?
 

Mars

Prolific Contributor
CS Forums $upporter
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Messages
4,989
Just a quick note about CPS 17 again:

I took a call this afternoon from a dealer/colleague who BRICKED a XTS5000, which was at firmware 9. He was using a legit iButton refresh key, going to firmware 17.01.01/17.01.00, with CPS R17.01.02. He was using the Moto USB cable.

During the firmware update, the CPS managed to corrupt the codeplug (Fail 01/82) and he could not recover it. I helped him out with some other options and all was fine after that.

DO NOT USE CPS 17, unless firmware 17 is already in the radio. The obvious question here: How does one get firmware 17 into a radio without bricking? Try CPS 16. Might work.

Once radio has firmware 17, CPS 17 seems to work without any difficulties.

Moto definitely screwed up CPS 17 by messing with the USB driver. At least that's the theory.
 

Radio Crazy

Contributing Member
CS Forums $upporter
Joined
Mar 16, 2012
Messages
77
Here is the answer from many refreshs with all different Astros 2500 and 5000s, use this forums great radio beat down/rollback on whatever radio your programming to http://www.p25.ca/threads/502-FIX-R...-ASTRO25-CPS-codeplug-version?highlight=cpfix then update and refresh with a ibutton to R17.00.01 then after that finishes I use CPS R16.01.00 to read and write the plug. Have not had any problem with 01/82 for months since I have been using this method. (All programming accomplished with OEM USB RKN4105A) When they come out with a stabile Astro25 CPS then I will go back to it, until then this is great for me.
 

Alpha

T¹ ÆS Ø - Moderator, CS Forums $upporter
Staff member
CS Forums $upporter
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
2,756
This XTS4000 cable seems to fit the EXACT description of my DTR (Weird 900 MHz frequency hopping radios) RS-232 RIB-Less cable. The part number of the DTR cable is 0105950U15. This is what it looks like, anyone know if it will work on an XTS4000?
 

Attachments

  • DTR RS-232 Programming Cable 0105950U15.jpg
    DTR RS-232 Programming Cable 0105950U15.jpg
    8.4 KB · Views: 820
OP
Eaton

Eaton

Prolific Contributor
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
189
Thanks to everyone for the replies!
The firmware is R14.00.00 and I regret I used CPS R17 to read the radio for the first time. I will undoubtedly use the rollback software!

As for FPP: You are limited to 240 zones/modes which are FPP'able. No way around it. The remaining zones/modes are non-FPP.
I don't need more FPP zones than I have now. The problem is that I can't create any more zones at all

Also, if you are using firmware newer than R12.xx.xx (I assume yes, as you have the 240-mode FPP flashcode), consider doing the 2000-mode enhancement if you wish to have more channels than 512. Mod is here. But before you go doing it, please post your firmware and flashcode. There are mandatory perquisites for the mod.
As I have already mentioned, my firmware is R14.00.00. I'm afraid I might brick my radio. What other precautions should I consider?

This XTS4000 cable seems to fit the EXACT description of my DTR (Weird 900 MHz frequency hopping radios) RS-232 RIB-Less cable. The part number of the DTR cable is 0105950U15. This is what it looks like, anyone know if it will work on an XTS4000?
As far as I'm concerned, DTR cable makes an XTS4000 start transmitting when connected.
 

Alpha

T¹ ÆS Ø - Moderator, CS Forums $upporter
Staff member
CS Forums $upporter
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
2,756
As far as I'm concerned, DTR cable makes an XTS4000 start transmitting when connected.

Hmm... Then the DTR cable does sound a lot like an unmodified iDEN cable, someone above mentioned that same thing about the iDEN cable that it sticks in TX. Unfortunately I don't have an XTS4000 to test the theory with... Too bad, IIRC the DTR cable was fairly cheap.
 
OP
Eaton

Eaton

Prolific Contributor
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
189
When my Iden cable was new, it didn't make the radio start transmitting, but turned the display backlight on when the radio was off and muted the audio with the radio on. So I assume there are some differences between these cables.

Just a quick update - I've done the CPS version rollback mod on my radio and read it with CPS R16.00.00. Now reading and writing from/to radio goes a great deal faster and I'm able to add non-FPP zones! Thank you very much for the advice and this great utility!!!
 

Bigfella237

Ø Tactical OTAR Slayer
Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
474
I'd love to hear if anyone has attempted to make their own USB cable for the 4000's?

It shouldn't be that hard to cannibalize one of these $10 Iden cables and attach any old generic USB cable to the connector?

I just cannot see how Motorola's USB cable can possibly cost $361.00??
 
Status